How would the crafting system look in GW2 if you designed it?

In another thread, we have been discussing the actual information released by Anet on crafting.
I thought it would be more productive to create a new topic in which we would discuss how you would want to design the GW2 crafting system and discuss our ideas amongst each other rather than to also do that discussion in the other thread.
Perhaps you like the GW2 system as is. Perhaps you want to suggest some modifications. Or perhaps, like Skyy High, you had a brillian idea (secret new recipes). All these topics can be discussed here.
Since I started this thread, I thought I would go first :-)
The system presented by Anet did not seem subpar. It appeared standard. I had two ideas (don't know which one you think is better).
At this point, item crafting seem to be limited to armor for different types, and weapons as well as weapon upgrades for different types. Lastly, there is food (consumables items that boost attributes in some way).
I like that you don't have to craft to get items you want. On the other hand, the crafting system itself seems a bit flat and rather simplistic in comparison to other mmorpgs such as EVE where all items are player generated.
We don't have to go to the EVE extreme, but it would be nice to have the option of crafting other things as well. Some ideas range from crafting of "environmental weapons/items" that are optionally consumable. Some examples that fall in this category are torches, breathing masks, or you know those signal light rockets you launch on sea when you are lost.
Each of these items would not just have fighting skills associated with them: torch (some sort of fire damage skills), or light rocket (damage against ghosts etc).
But these items would be desirable to have for other benefits they may provide. The torch lights dark caverns, the breathing mask allows you to breath longer underwater (if air is an issue), the light signal may signal to players far away that something is going on here - perhaps help is needed.
In short have items out there that have other uses than just fighting as part of the crafting system.
The second idea revolves around making crafting a mini-game as opposed to just adding x of a and y of b to make z. Perhaps the timing of when ingredients are added can also be a factor. So if you add a between 5-10 seconds, and b between 5-10 seconds, you'll get z. The item will be most optimal if you add a at 6 seconds, and b at 9 seconds.
If this second idea does not square well with others, it should at least be possible to input already crafted items as part of the 4 slot item crafting system to create something new.
These are at least some of my ideas of how the system as presented to be augmented.
What are yours? Or do you like the system as is?|||Okay, just to recap what I said before: the discovery system is great for people who want to treat it as its own little game, and not look up stuff on wiki, while simultaneously letting the people who don't care about crafting just look up a recipe on wiki and get to it without needing to buy or discover the recipe for themselves. Fantastic.
But, there's more that can be done here, imo. Simply by quietly introducing a few new recipes to the game every month, you reward the crafters who stick with the discovery system, who are constantly looking for new recipes, with "first dibs" on any new items that you can give them.
Let's just look at the Jeweler for now. From the one screenshot, we know that there are at least 5 metals in the game (silver, bronze, tin, copper, iron), and I think we can take it for granted that there will be at least gold and platinum available as well. Each chunk of ore can be crafted into at least 6 secondary components (hooks, bands, etc). That means there are at least 42 secondary components in the game, just looking at metals available to the jeweler (which can probably also work with rare gems and such).
Choosing 4 random secondary components from the 42 available gives a total number of combinations of 111930. That's assuming order doesn't matter (and it probably doesn't). That's also assuming the only recipes for wearable jewelery use these 7 metals and nothing else, and that each piece of jewelery is only made with combinations of 4 secondary components (I can see combinations of 3 also being useful).
My point is this: there is no possible way there will be that many items available to craft when the game releases, which means there will be a ton of design space available for them to introduce new recipes to the game on a regular basis. The hard part will be commissioning the artwork and models for the weapons.
My secondary point is this: there is no way the wiki will be completely updated within a week. Finding the Traveler each week is one thing; testing the literally millions of combinations for each profession is quite another.|||Meet Hagen. He stands around in the Granite Citadel, waiting for adventurers to reach him. Most who do either wants to purchase the armor he is willing to sell them, or they are hunting for skills in the mineral springs area, which you need to pass his humble abode to reach. Hagen's entire life in Guild Wars is devoted to crafting. Which would make for a pretty boring life. But Hagen is an NPC, and as NPC lives go, Hagen has one of the best there is. Most other NPCs are there just to get killed!
However, Hagen has a good life as far as NPCs go. He doesn't have a good life as a player. Why? Because he has to craft.
Don't get me wrong here. Hagen is a good example of how crafting should be implemented, but also a warning example for anyone who wants to go overboard with making crafting important. Because while it might be fun and immersive for some to have an engaging crafting system, there are others who refuse to share Hagen's fate - to the point of not playing the game at all, if playing it means that they have to craft.
tl;dr: I don't care how the crafting system is implemented, as long as it can be skipped entirely (without hassle) and preferably left to some NPC.|||Hagen wields an axe and shield. He never gets to use it because he's too busy standing in town for players to buy his stuff so he can level his craft.
Actually, some players do that in WoW. Craft stuff for others, for a small profit and mostly for levelling their craft. And they pay 15$ a month.
Crafting is fun if it's one of many alternative things you can do to earn your keep. Like minigames, like PvP, like WvWvW, like storyline. Being forced into activities you don't enjoy is generally bad, and crafting is something I enjoy in moderation, but know full well that many don't enjoy it at all.
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I'm so far pretty happy with the direction ANet is taking, if what they say stays true to what they deliver.|||My only objection to the system as presented is that I would like discovery to be a bit more elegant than brute-force trial-and-error. Not a mini-game, but something that provides an option for logical deduction of new recipes for those who don't want to sit for hours throwing random combinations of materials into boxes and pulling the lever to see what, if anything, comes out. Mini-games can get old after a few repetitions (see "hacking" in Bioshock I). and trial-and-error gets old even faster.
One possibility that might help is some feedback on failed recipes when you are close to a good one. "Hmmm. Maybe this would work with more copper." or "This might make a good sword if it weren't so soft. Perhaps it needs something to temper it."|||If I were to make GW2's crafting system, it would consist of a 2x2 grid that you can place items to make other types of items when out in the wilderness. When in town, you could go to a crafting area and it would turn into a 3x3 grid. When using the 3x3, you could make swords, axes, bows, guns, dynamite, heavy armor, light armor etc. Basically everything in the game that can be crafted would be available without restriction on what your title is.
However, I would want the 2x2 grid to restrict you to making stuff you might need from moment to moment, but not really armor and weapons. Maybe stuff like torches... oh wait that's minecraft, sorry.
I'm liking the news for crafting, although I wish there were more things in the world to do than kill stuff, find nodes, and break down armor as far as gathering goes. Still not really complaining at all, I'll be happy with the system I think.|||Again, I agree with crafting being optional and giving people the chance to buy things off what other people make etc.
But in terms of crafting, I just had to spontaneously think of SPORE! Yeah! Instead of pre-making all items, perhaps give people the ability to truely craft within the toolbox that is provided. I love Spores for that even though in terms of difficulty etc....the game was tooo easy. What was the term they used for that kind of tool-box design??!
And what about giving players the option of crafting "CUSTOM" parts for their home and/or guild facility??!
I say option because some guilds may not want to craft things. So perhaps standard equipment can be bought from NPCs, customized parts can be crafted and sold to other guilds if they don't like crafting themselves?|||For me personally, it would have been awesome if crafting was about adding effects to plain items. For example, white long sword + certain materials = Icy Dragon Sword. That way white items would be useful and you could add a glow to your staff or a translucent effect to your shield or an animation to your bow (like that bow from EotN) or whatever cool effect the devs think of.|||Well I guess you have two options. . . you could modify what we've currently been shown to make it work for the game better or just revamp it

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This might get long, but I guess I'll start with mods:
As I mentioned before if you're forced to go to town to use a station there's no real difference between crafting system and just speaking to an NPC.
If you want the crafting system to be interesting you need it to do something that is unique (preferably something that effects the gameworld)
I'll just throw out some examples. . . quests are an easy one. . .
Lets say you deliver supplies to an outpost and they are paid for it with a pouch of gems. . . As a Jeweler you might notice that they are fake which now speeds up the quest chain. . .
The Player is happy because they save time and get a bonus reward (maybe crafting exp)
Subtle bonuses are another. . .
There might be a situation where a door needs to be braced. . .
Any Player can brace it, but if you have the right discipline you might be able to do a better job or take less time to strengthen it

Cross discipline / player synergy also looks good. . .
But I say this with caution as coming up with a system where players would have to work together to achieve a goal without detracting from the game is actually rather difficult
I previously mentioned pooling resources to make a boat that would let you get a very dangerous area with a group of friends, but to really make it work you'd want other combos that are re-occurring
The last one I can think of are changes to the player's UI, but this isn't very compatible with what's currently available
This is mainly because the choices don't off much that is meaningful beyond maybe highlighting an ore field on your mini map or drawing your attention to the fattest bull in the herd
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That's probably enough suggestions for what's currently shown. . .
My real 2� would be to literally gut everything listed except cooking and start over. . .
My main philosophy on this is that the crafting system should add a lot of fun extras to the game. . . Weapons and Armor are not extras. . . They are serious business to the Player
(and should be left in the in the hands of town NPCs, quests, and combat spoils)
Also lets be honest. . . If go out and slay some dude named "Bone Father" who drops me the best necro staff am I going to care about Artificer?
No. . . and anytime you have an in-game mechanic that eclipses itself people will complain about whichever one is worse
So lets cut to the chase. . . My Formula: Crafting = Fun Extras. . .
How about someone who makes musical instruments?
Yes, you could probably still make horns for combat, but only because it's convenient. . . you'd mainly make out of combat items to sell to other players that would activate emotes similar to what we saw in the original game.
How about Someone who makes containers?
Not just bags and improved stash size. . . I'm thinking more about making secret stashes that could be hidden or even planted in plain site (so long as it looked like it belonged) that other players could interact with
How about a Taxidermist?
You see a group of Norn dragging the biggest frost wurm you have ever seen back into town. . . People are cheering as they display their prize for everyone to see
A few hours later that wurm is slung over their Guild Hall entrance as a special customization that all future challengers will gaze upon
Most of these just write themselves. . .
How about a Tattoo Artist?
How about someone who makes capes, banners, or other costumes. . . (lol Tailor)
How about an animal breeder for pets, mini pets, but also why not cooks?
How about someone who makes target dummies for training like we see in Isle of the nameless
How about someone who makes beer
Someone who makes salvage kits, exotic dyes, or fireworks
I could keep going, but basically the idea would be to keep them simple and to have a lot of them so that having friends or other guild members to help you fill in the gaps would actually be meaningful, but at the same time not be required since everything is just an extra
of course though I'd probably be ok with a craft that specializes in making equipment for traps, but that would once again be serious gameplay|||Quote:








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Most of these just write themselves. . .
How about a Tattoo Artist?
How about someone who makes capes, banners, or other costumes. . . (lol Tailor)
How about an animal breeder for pets, mini pets, but also why not cooks?
How about someone who makes target dummies for training like we see in Isle of the nameless
How about someone who makes beer
Someone who makes salvage kits, exotic dyes, or fireworks




Yes but the thing is. Why would you not put stuff like that with an NPC? Imagine you want a cool tattoo (which is a great idea for an in-game feature in itself, and so is the musical instruments thing, and the guild hall display of a defeated enemy monster)... Now you have to find a player who does that. Yes it might only take 4-5 minutes... Or maybe more. But compared to just clicking on an NPC it's quite a hassle.
I'd want to see a crafting system where crafting is a rare thing. Not necessarily that it's all NPC-based, but you shouldn't have to go through 80 swords to max off blacksmithing or something like that, like someone else calculated. It should be more like you are making (or improving) this item X which really means a lot to you. This would be similar to buying/getting a nice weapon skin in GW1 and then shopping around for the right inscriptions and mods for it, and putting it all together...
Some people do stuff like that all the time, either to sell (not as common anymore, I think) or for themselves
Some people very rarely or never do it
Everyone is equally capable of doing it

All those three should be supported... IMO.
@ Uriah_Heep: Yes. It reminds me of this other idea I saw once, either here or on Guru: About a crafting system where some materials would be base materials and others would modify the base item, either cosmetically or stats-wise. For example:
5 iron ingots = plain sword
5 iron ingots + 2 lava stones = fire damage sword
5 iron ingots + 2 spectral essence = translucent sword
5 iron ingots + 2 spectral essence + 1 asuran golem-battery = translucent sword doing lightning damage

...and so on. But if the recipes are logically structured like that, it might be too easy to "discover" new ones, which might ruin the entire idea of discovering recipes in the first place. Unless what we're really meant to "discover" is the pattern, not the actual recipes.