I'm still not decided whether I'll actually buy the game or not (that decision will only get made at the release or public demo at the earliest, perhaps a bit after release), but at the moment, I have been planning somewhat how I'll be building the characters.
I'll definitely be starting one character of each class if possible (as trying out the different characters is what I enjoy most about these sorts of games.).
Warrior: Will likely either by Charr or Norn, the stereotypical "big guy gets to be the warrior." The choice of which depends on what the other soldier class is, and whether it feels more "nornish" or "charrish". the warrior will be the other one.
I'm not sure about the backstory questions yet whichever gets picked. I'll probably pick a background that is not the stereotypical one, but still seems it could fit a warrior class. (so, not a bear spirit for norn, and not Blood legion for charr, though the actual choice is up for grabs.)
As for weapon focus, I'll be getting all the skills if possible, and will probably switch between most of the weapons at different points.
Ranger: Most likely Sylvari or Human, though Charr is a possibility. Background options are up for grabs. The starting pet options may influence which race I end up picking.
For Pets, I'll most likely go for more unusual ones. Lizard, Drake, and spider are most likely, Devourer and some fish are others I might pick up. Cats are another possibility. (they are more standard, but I do like the feel of cats.) If some form of boar ends up included, they might be picked up for the same reason.
Weapon wise, I'll try to pick up all types of skills as with other classes, but it seems more likely that I'll be focusing on bows rather than axes or close combat.
Elementalist: Human most likely, possibly Sylvari or Asura. Elementalists have the feel of a more "straightforward" caster, and humans feel like the more "straightforward" of the three races. Background options are mostly up for grabs.
I'd likely start as Air or Water, but will, as you may guess, try to pick up most skills.
Necromancer: Most likely Sylvari, though I could see using Asura or human as well. Sylvari seem to have a more "mysterious" feeling that fits with necromancers. It would most likely be a winter Sylvari, though other background options are, as always, up for grabs.
Skill wise, I haven't yet figured out the pattersn for the necromancer skills, so I'm not sure what sort of weapons I'll likely prefer at the moment.
Unknown professions (I'm using the more common assumptions about what these will be, but this will of course change if the professions are different):
Mesmer like: If one of these included, it will likely be an Asura. I think the color of Asura PvE skills, plus the "annoying" idea behind the Asura, fits mesmers better.
Assasin like: Human most likely, perhaps Sylvari or Asura. If this class has strong disruptive bow skills, I imagine using them a lot.
Gunner/engineer: Char is the most obvious, though I could also see going Norn if a class like this is added. (At least, the way I imagine it.) Asura may fit as well.
Paladin like: Either Charr or Norn. Charr makes more logical sense, as these sorts of "holy warrior" classes are usually more group oriented in backstory terms, though Norn "feels" a bit better. The class may of course work completely differently, though it's still likely I'll go charr or norn.
Is anyone else coming up with these sorts of plans at the moment?|||Settling with three at the start.
First up, a human commoner who has whatever profession can play with guns the most. Hopefully also able to swap to swords/daggers or something.
Next a Sylvari of autumn/dusk. No idea if it influences the outcome of your appearance that much. If so, might have to do a revision.. This one will be an Elementalist or a melee class. Haven't decided yet.
And finally, a Charr Necromancer from the Ash legion.
That skill preview video totally won me over.|||Character list:Male asuran ranger (main), with an iguana pet
Male sylvari ??? (probably the profession of the blue lady)
Female human elementalist (or possibly mesmer if it's included), noble
Male norn warrior (I know, it's overdone), greatsword user
Female charr ??? (probably something using rifles), Iron Legion
Possibly three characters for the remaining professions, though I may save them to use with whatever new races come out in expansions
As for my actual plans for when the game comes out... I don't intend to do much of the personal story right off the bat, since I don't like making permanent decisions until I know the exact consequences. I'll probably spend a lot of time exploring, playing extra careful if I decide to go for Survivor on my main. Dye hunting is also a high priority, depending on how we unlock new colors.|||My choices will definitely depend on what class specific skills there are as well as the 4 yet to be revealed professions, I will most likely not end up rolling a human, at least for my main or secondary as I wanna try the other races first.
At the moment though I am leaning towards:
(Main)Norn/Sylvari, among the current professions we know for sure I'm thinking Ranger for Norn as it fits well with their hunting culture, and either rolling a Necro or Elementalist Sylvari. Sylvari for me will be a scholar race either way, don't think I will do a Mesmer Sylvari though if that is indeed the next scholar profession to be released.
(Second) One of the above
(Third) Will depend heavily on what professions are released, if they release some kind of paladin warrior class I could see rolling a tanky kind of Charr as interesting but if the warrior profession is announced to be some kind of remade assassin profession I might do a human with that profession, but only if the profession seems better than in gw1 cus it was really boring in gw1.
I will most likely stay away completely from Asura's, the only chance of me playing Asura would probably be me making a necromancer completely evil Asura who is devoted to Grenth. But that would be the last character I make.|||Quote:
I don't like making permanent decisions until I know the exact consequences.
Indeed.
Don't want to run into a silly "Protect NPC!" somewhere without knowing and the guy dies without me actually choosing. Hopping into another branch of my story thanks to that.|||Human male Ranger (main with moa pet and all)
Norn male Necromancer (either wolf or raven background)
Asuran male Elementalist
Charr male Gunner
Sylvari male Mesmer
The remaining three professions are mainly melee based so I might play them at a later point.
As for when the game is released I'll probably start off with WvW until peak times become established then play WvW during peak time and PvE the rest.|||In the end, my race-prof combos will depend in large part on the racial bonuses and profession abilities... I`m looking for more rounded characters with a wider range of skills. So it`s way too early to tell...|||First order of business, fill all my character slots with newborn characters just for birthday reasons.|||Norn and Charr. What profession I'll wait and see.|||I will be making two "main" peeps:
-Human Necromancer
-Sylvari Necromancer
I plan to alternately play and have them reach "max" around the same time. Any other professions I make (if at all) will be determined by their capacity to farm and mule heavy objects for the "needs" of my two main avatars.
...
Yes, it is just me, I like the Necromancer, and seeing it is already on board for GW2, I do not have much interest really in playing anything else (even without knowing what the yet unannounced professions will be; unless one is a Lich).
Doesn't mean I am not excited to hear about the classes though; new information is always fun to read (and art to goggle over).
Saturday, April 21, 2012
The beginning of the HoM information.
Source.
Relevant bit:
Quote:
Hall of Monuments-When you create your GW 2 account, you will link a GW 1 account to it. You will get an item to double-click to take you to your GW 2 HoM. You will get points for things you did in GW 1. With number of points, you unlock rewards in GW 2. A full HoM guide will be going up VERY SOON on the GW 2 website, with pictures and details of rewards. It does not take a full hall to receive rewards.
Let the theories about point accumulation begin!!|||Awesome! I have some HoM finishing up to do...well...a lot actually...|||Bunnies.
Every point gives you one.|||Quote:
full HoM guide will be going up VERY SOON
PAX anyone?|||Quote:
Bunnies.
Every point gives you one.
I want a dozen adorable bunnies that transform into a vicious barbarian horde whenever the inevitable GW incident music starts ramping up.
And yes, I very much suspect PAX will see some of this information, maybe, though I don't see why it would interest passersby quite as much as gameplay and promises of breaking the MMO mold.
Or maybe they are trying to get more people to try GW so there's more money for GW2 development.|||Quote:
PAX anyone?
Maybe, probably won't let people take their own inheritance though, that would strike me as odd anyway.
As for when I think the official info will be out... probably around Wednesday after PAX (don't get your hopes up even for this though). /standard_disclaimer|||can't wait.
Quote:
I wonder if the points you get come only from titles you have displayed in the HoM or from the other stands too, like the miniature and armor stands. I do hope the info comes out soon.
I'm almost 100% positive that all 4 monuments will help you acquire points.|||I wonder if the points you get come only from titles you have displayed in the HoM or from the other stands too, like the miniature and armor stands. I do hope the info comes out soon.|||Point system is nice, it allows you to get what you want, and for those with a more complete HoM, to get everything.
However, I'm a bit worried still about how that works out, I hope the things you get are unlocks, not single items.|||Oh, you achieved "Kind of a Big Deal"? That's enough for...A rare toothpick!
Oh wow! GWAMM! You can unlock a Zhaitan hat.
Relevant bit:
Quote:
Hall of Monuments-When you create your GW 2 account, you will link a GW 1 account to it. You will get an item to double-click to take you to your GW 2 HoM. You will get points for things you did in GW 1. With number of points, you unlock rewards in GW 2. A full HoM guide will be going up VERY SOON on the GW 2 website, with pictures and details of rewards. It does not take a full hall to receive rewards.
Let the theories about point accumulation begin!!|||Awesome! I have some HoM finishing up to do...well...a lot actually...|||Bunnies.
Every point gives you one.|||Quote:
full HoM guide will be going up VERY SOON
PAX anyone?|||Quote:
Bunnies.
Every point gives you one.
I want a dozen adorable bunnies that transform into a vicious barbarian horde whenever the inevitable GW incident music starts ramping up.
And yes, I very much suspect PAX will see some of this information, maybe, though I don't see why it would interest passersby quite as much as gameplay and promises of breaking the MMO mold.
Or maybe they are trying to get more people to try GW so there's more money for GW2 development.|||Quote:
PAX anyone?
Maybe, probably won't let people take their own inheritance though, that would strike me as odd anyway.
As for when I think the official info will be out... probably around Wednesday after PAX (don't get your hopes up even for this though). /standard_disclaimer|||can't wait.
Quote:
I wonder if the points you get come only from titles you have displayed in the HoM or from the other stands too, like the miniature and armor stands. I do hope the info comes out soon.
I'm almost 100% positive that all 4 monuments will help you acquire points.|||I wonder if the points you get come only from titles you have displayed in the HoM or from the other stands too, like the miniature and armor stands. I do hope the info comes out soon.|||Point system is nice, it allows you to get what you want, and for those with a more complete HoM, to get everything.
However, I'm a bit worried still about how that works out, I hope the things you get are unlocks, not single items.|||Oh, you achieved "Kind of a Big Deal"? That's enough for...A rare toothpick!
Oh wow! GWAMM! You can unlock a Zhaitan hat.
GW2: The Extended Experience (Anet Blog)
http://www.arena.net/blog/gaming-out...ded-experience
Interesting stuff, not too much revealed, but looking forward to hearing more later on.|||Yup yup, I knew this was coming. I still surprised that ANet will have the monopoly on that first.
But then again, ANet is innovation.|||I wonder if Anet developing for iOS now (which is basically a mobile version of OSX) could mean that a Mac port of GW2 is in the cards. When it comes time to ditch this laptop I sure wouldn't mind picking up an iMac.
Of course making a few small mobile apps isn't the same as making an entire PC game use OpenGL instead of DirectX 11.|||ANet is working on GW.OS, in which you`ll be able to do your work from inside GW. RL will now be the new in-game, and in-game will be the new RL. MUAHAHAHA.
Ok, time to go back to the asylum.|||Quote:
ANet is working on GW.OS, in which you`ll be able to do your work from inside GW.
That would be awesome.
Boss: Ahem!
Me: Nope, doing work.
*Boss leans in to look, grumbles, and walks away.*
*I go right back to killing the Shatterer*|||Quest: kill the shatterer
Reward: GW fills in your work spreadsheet.
AWESOME|||As I have written here before:
First impression: wow, nice feature
Second though: I still want to keep RL and game time separate. GW is already too addictive without a tie to a webapp or mobile app for your smartphone.|||Well, you CAN keep RL separate, there will be features to select what gets through and what doesn`t.|||Relevant to this thread's interests:|||Quote:
Well, you CAN keep RL separate, there will be features to select what gets through and what doesn`t.
I think he was saying it would be hard to resist the temptation to play with those features at every opportunity
Mostly stuff we already knew, but still neat. I don't own any of those fancy schmancy tech devices, but just being able to chat or trade from a web browser will be awesome.
Not to derail this into another profession speculation thread, but... look closely at the first image- specifically, the character portraits on the right. The third one down looks an awful lot like an assassin to me. (Interestingly, it looks like a 2D image rather than a model render like the others- an NPC, maybe?)
Interesting stuff, not too much revealed, but looking forward to hearing more later on.|||Yup yup, I knew this was coming. I still surprised that ANet will have the monopoly on that first.
But then again, ANet is innovation.|||I wonder if Anet developing for iOS now (which is basically a mobile version of OSX) could mean that a Mac port of GW2 is in the cards. When it comes time to ditch this laptop I sure wouldn't mind picking up an iMac.
Of course making a few small mobile apps isn't the same as making an entire PC game use OpenGL instead of DirectX 11.|||ANet is working on GW.OS, in which you`ll be able to do your work from inside GW. RL will now be the new in-game, and in-game will be the new RL. MUAHAHAHA.
Ok, time to go back to the asylum.|||Quote:
ANet is working on GW.OS, in which you`ll be able to do your work from inside GW.
That would be awesome.
Boss: Ahem!
Me: Nope, doing work.
*Boss leans in to look, grumbles, and walks away.*
*I go right back to killing the Shatterer*|||Quest: kill the shatterer
Reward: GW fills in your work spreadsheet.
AWESOME|||As I have written here before:
First impression: wow, nice feature
Second though: I still want to keep RL and game time separate. GW is already too addictive without a tie to a webapp or mobile app for your smartphone.|||Well, you CAN keep RL separate, there will be features to select what gets through and what doesn`t.|||Relevant to this thread's interests:|||Quote:
Well, you CAN keep RL separate, there will be features to select what gets through and what doesn`t.
I think he was saying it would be hard to resist the temptation to play with those features at every opportunity
Mostly stuff we already knew, but still neat. I don't own any of those fancy schmancy tech devices, but just being able to chat or trade from a web browser will be awesome.
Not to derail this into another profession speculation thread, but... look closely at the first image- specifically, the character portraits on the right. The third one down looks an awful lot like an assassin to me. (Interestingly, it looks like a 2D image rather than a model render like the others- an NPC, maybe?)
A little bugg on the GuildWars2 site.
~ The bug has been fixed ~
Not much of a big deal, just thought I'd let you know. ^^
I e-mailed them already about it.
Its at the Professions page.
The Elementalist has been listed twice and the Necromancer isn't mentioned at all in the list to the right.
Also, the Necromancer text is missing its title
Full Screenshot.
Greetz,
DELTA 38|||And hovering over where it should say necromancer, it links to the ranger's page.|||It usually happens to the site when they are adding a new profe... /doubletake|||Someone start digging to the codes and stuff.|||WOAH NEW PROFESSION? AWESOME!
(I hope it's a new one this time)|||Quote:
WOAH NEW PROFESSION? AWESOME!
(I hope it's a new one this time)
IF they really are updating the profession page, I hope they actually reveal 2 new classes. The most probably mesmer and a new class we don't know yet.|||My bet is blue lady Paragon or Mesmer.|||Aah, don't quote me on that! Just being facetious ... though I will not complain if they release a new one today.|||Quote:
Aah, don't quote me on that! Just being facetious
Yes I know...but that doesn't stop me from refreshing that page every 10 seconds
E: I hope they reveal the second soldier class next :<|||Well...crap....we're really starved for info aren't we?
*crosses fingers*
Not much of a big deal, just thought I'd let you know. ^^
I e-mailed them already about it.
Its at the Professions page.
The Elementalist has been listed twice and the Necromancer isn't mentioned at all in the list to the right.
Also, the Necromancer text is missing its title
Full Screenshot.
Greetz,
DELTA 38|||And hovering over where it should say necromancer, it links to the ranger's page.|||It usually happens to the site when they are adding a new profe... /doubletake|||Someone start digging to the codes and stuff.|||WOAH NEW PROFESSION? AWESOME!
(I hope it's a new one this time)|||Quote:
WOAH NEW PROFESSION? AWESOME!
(I hope it's a new one this time)
IF they really are updating the profession page, I hope they actually reveal 2 new classes. The most probably mesmer and a new class we don't know yet.|||My bet is blue lady Paragon or Mesmer.|||Aah, don't quote me on that! Just being facetious ... though I will not complain if they release a new one today.|||Quote:
Aah, don't quote me on that! Just being facetious
Yes I know...but that doesn't stop me from refreshing that page every 10 seconds
E: I hope they reveal the second soldier class next :<|||Well...crap....we're really starved for info aren't we?
*crosses fingers*
Extended Experience FAQ Published
I just wanted to share with you that a FAQ for the extended experience has been published here:
Found here:
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/57...-FAQ-Published
Original Source:
http://www.arena.net/blog/rick-ellis...ence-questions
Feel free to discuss your impressions, and questions concerning the FAQ here.|||I think it's cool that they want the GW community to be reachable even while not in game. I used GW primarily to have fun with my friends overseas so it's great to hear that I can hear from them outside of the game too. Also,
Quote:
Q: Is there any chance of getting something akin to GW’s observer mode with this application?
Rick: That’s definitely within the realm of possibility, but we haven’t announced any such features…yet.
I would absolutely love it if they included observer mode both in game and on the app and it was available on the web.|||This sounds cool, it would be nice to see what everyone was up to when I needed a break from the game. I just hope it doesn't cause a lot of hard-core players to turn into zombies because they'd be on GW2 24/7. lol I can see the lawsuits starting already, like the kid suing NCSoft for "stealing 20,000 hours of his life".|||The hardcore players are the zombies already they don't leave the house and as such have no need for this app :D
Found here:
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/57...-FAQ-Published
Original Source:
http://www.arena.net/blog/rick-ellis...ence-questions
Feel free to discuss your impressions, and questions concerning the FAQ here.|||I think it's cool that they want the GW community to be reachable even while not in game. I used GW primarily to have fun with my friends overseas so it's great to hear that I can hear from them outside of the game too. Also,
Quote:
Q: Is there any chance of getting something akin to GW’s observer mode with this application?
Rick: That’s definitely within the realm of possibility, but we haven’t announced any such features…yet.
I would absolutely love it if they included observer mode both in game and on the app and it was available on the web.|||This sounds cool, it would be nice to see what everyone was up to when I needed a break from the game. I just hope it doesn't cause a lot of hard-core players to turn into zombies because they'd be on GW2 24/7. lol I can see the lawsuits starting already, like the kid suing NCSoft for "stealing 20,000 hours of his life".|||The hardcore players are the zombies already they don't leave the house and as such have no need for this app :D
GW2 Worries
Hey, I guess i'm afraid gw2 will be a bit boring. By the looks of the demo it seems there is not much going on, just killing some stuff. Also, I'm afraid I won't like gw2 because I never play really any other mmos because of the fact other mmos require you to grind and which is can be boring. I always try other mmos but ultimately end up going back to gw1 >_>. So I don't know what to expect from a game that is totally different from gw1. I don't know whether i'll like the new or not. So any comments or advice(sorta) on the matter?|||While the demo is suppose to show off certain parts of the game, I would say it (as a demo) is still pretty forcefully fed to the viewers, and leaves out a lot of content that could very easily change views on a lot of things. One of the biggest things a demo does not give to the viewer is experience, which imo is that "settling in" that really gives a player the whats up. Also GW2 could still have a lot of changes before release. I wouldn't give up hope :).|||Thanks for the advice and also, is there anyone here that played the gw1 demo or beta and didn't like but then got the full game and then enjoyed it? I know it's a bit specific but I just wanna know.|||Also, I think that the demo showcases more the event system, which is but one part of the game. It's also a more casual part of it. If you're not into that, there may well be other parts of the game that are more to your liking.
And with no subscription fee, I'll at least give it a try. If it really is a WoW clone (which I doubt), it'll still be better than the actual WoW on account that I can still play it when I feel like it without having to take out my credit card.|||when i heard that elementalists can use multiple elements, it was exciting. However, sadly, i doubt any of the conjures would make it into this game. The conjures though not powerful, were interesting... One worry of this game is the lack of choice and variance.|||While the demo, videos and chats with devs has left me with a list of things that concern me. What I do know is that Anet listens to feedback and has the time to change things if needed.
GW1 Demo's and indeed beta were different in a lot of key areas to the released game. So it's not 'panic stations' yet. Just Hmm i'm not sure about this, or 'how does that work then' both of which are to be expected and are entirely natural.
The key Mantra is to remind oneself that GW2 is Not GW1 with extra fluff, but an entirely new game and hence a new games view on the world.|||Quote:
The key Mantra is to remind oneself that GW2 is Not GW1 with extra fluff, but an entirely new game and hence a new games view on the world.
Yeah, but my worry is it's an entirely new game whose direction's impetus doesn't "get it". That is, getting the essence behind why the mmorpg genre has had more casualties than Saving Private Ryan.|||Quote:
The key Mantra is to remind oneself that GW2 is Not GW1 with extra fluff, but an entirely new game and hence a new games view on the world.
They said GW2 would *not* be like other MMO's. Their entire marketing campaign is focused on this one idea: "we're not like everybody else". So saying "it's a new game, not GW1.2 is like saying "ok, they lied, just get over it".|||Quote:
They said GW2 would *not* be like other MMO's. Their entire marketing campaign is focused on this one idea: "we're not like everybody else". So saying "it's a new game, not GW1.2 is like saying "ok, they lied, just get over it".
So it's either "Be just like Guild Wars 1" or "Be just like every other MMO", there's no third option?|||If you find out what's so unique or GW-like about grinding/buying/consuming pots, let me know. Imo the energy system is what made GW stand out from *all* other MMO's.
And with no subscription fee, I'll at least give it a try. If it really is a WoW clone (which I doubt), it'll still be better than the actual WoW on account that I can still play it when I feel like it without having to take out my credit card.|||when i heard that elementalists can use multiple elements, it was exciting. However, sadly, i doubt any of the conjures would make it into this game. The conjures though not powerful, were interesting... One worry of this game is the lack of choice and variance.|||While the demo, videos and chats with devs has left me with a list of things that concern me. What I do know is that Anet listens to feedback and has the time to change things if needed.
GW1 Demo's and indeed beta were different in a lot of key areas to the released game. So it's not 'panic stations' yet. Just Hmm i'm not sure about this, or 'how does that work then' both of which are to be expected and are entirely natural.
The key Mantra is to remind oneself that GW2 is Not GW1 with extra fluff, but an entirely new game and hence a new games view on the world.|||Quote:
The key Mantra is to remind oneself that GW2 is Not GW1 with extra fluff, but an entirely new game and hence a new games view on the world.
Yeah, but my worry is it's an entirely new game whose direction's impetus doesn't "get it". That is, getting the essence behind why the mmorpg genre has had more casualties than Saving Private Ryan.|||Quote:
The key Mantra is to remind oneself that GW2 is Not GW1 with extra fluff, but an entirely new game and hence a new games view on the world.
They said GW2 would *not* be like other MMO's. Their entire marketing campaign is focused on this one idea: "we're not like everybody else". So saying "it's a new game, not GW1.2 is like saying "ok, they lied, just get over it".|||Quote:
They said GW2 would *not* be like other MMO's. Their entire marketing campaign is focused on this one idea: "we're not like everybody else". So saying "it's a new game, not GW1.2 is like saying "ok, they lied, just get over it".
So it's either "Be just like Guild Wars 1" or "Be just like every other MMO", there's no third option?|||If you find out what's so unique or GW-like about grinding/buying/consuming pots, let me know. Imo the energy system is what made GW stand out from *all* other MMO's.
PC Gamer article
So the new edition of PCGamer is out and someone at Guru made a good post about the info in it.
The relevant bits:
Quote:
*Yay new info! (No matter how small) As you go along the personal story you'll be playing through a new dungeon about once every 10 levels or so.
* ''The story of each [dungeon] focuses on one or more of the Destiny's Edge, a guild of heroes who reliably saved the world untill some dark events split them apart. It is your objective to get them back together.' Woo its getting juicy.
*''The first time you play a dungeon, you'll play through its Story Mode, where one or two members of Destiny's Edge show up as friendly NPCs to drive the story foward.''
*Although story driven, dungeons arent all about sitting around talking. Its about fighting. ''Even one that starts out as a party in a mansion quickly turns to combat''
*''Beating a dungeon's Story Mode will unlock its Explorable Mode, a harder version of the dungeon which tells varied follow-up stories in that same area, unrelated to Destinys edge''
* They say that the explorer dungeon mode is meant to be really repeatable. It'll have many different scenarios and enemies that could appear each time (while not being random.)
* Eric says that in Gw1 after you've done the missions a few times the story stuff stops being interesting, and can get in the way of you having fun. People were skipping cutscenes.
* ''So what we wanted to do was to provide people with a linear story mode with lots of cutscenes, lots of story going on, lots of exposition. And then for the explorable mode it can be a lot more freeform, where can just jump in and you're dealing with something that doesnt need as much explanation, doesnt have a lot of cutscenes, and its got a lot of replayability built into it because there are different ways to complete it or different paths to take''
*Woo they give an example of a dungeon that isnt the beetletun mansion. The Sorrows Embrace dungeon is a hideout for the Dredge. If you play it on story mode youll discover that the Dredge leaders have sold their people into slavery under the Seraph. So you fight off all the slavers (sound familiar, anyone??? Awesome). So after you've completed that explorable mode will open up and you can do things like ''aid the dredge workers who are now planning to revult against their corrupt leaders''
* Some dungeons will be familiar to Gw1 players.... At around level thirty you'll be able to enter the Ascalon catacombs. The spirits there are restless, so a Charr comander and Rytlock lead you in to lay them to rest. You might recognise some of the more powerful spirits in this dungeon as the profession trainers from GW1!! ''Master Ranger Nente can teleport and shoot waves of arrows that cover part of the room, forcing you to hide behind objects in the environment.''
*''Warmaster Grast smashes players and the environment with his oversized, half-ghost hammer, and you can grab the chunks of rubble he knocks out to throw them back.''
*''Finally, theres Necromancer Munne and the boss of the dungeon, King Adelmen. (Is that a typo?? Please tell me it is!)
*Rewards from dungeons will be the same statisticly as other high end rewards. No one will be forced to play a dungeon. (Kind of a given, but really nice to hear it stated again)
* Though the gear will not be statistically more powerful it will have unique appearances that are directly tied into the theme of the dungeon and 'visually striking'. (bonus mission pack, anyone? )
*It says A.net dont want the rewards to be based on chance. No one should have to complete the dungeon many times and maybe even get the same item they already have twice. They remedy this by rewarding players with an item that can be traded for the desired peice of equipment. This way its never random what you get, you can pick and choose yourself. (Just like doa and the tormented weapons, for example)
I'm liking the sound of that.
A lot.|||Woah! That sounds awesome!
I hope GW2 has more than just 8 dungeons.|||Yay awesome info in there! I had to yank it out of the awesomesauce thread (even though it is awesomesauce) because it deserves its own topic.
I am curious about the dungeons though. I had the understanding that all dungeons are for teams of 5? How does it work if some are doing the dungeon for the first time and some have already completed the "story mode" version?
Hooray for Ascalon Catacombs! and wootness for "reward trophy" type rewards instead of randomness!|||Quote:
I am curious about the dungeons though. I had the understanding that all dungeons are for teams of 5? How does it work if some are doing the dungeon for the first time and some have already completed the "story mode" version?
Im not sure myself, but wasn't it said in the past that only the party leader counts towards story content done?
So perhaps once you have done a story mode of the dungeon, people you party with who have not done it yet will just play through the explorable mode with you (Team of 5), and then if they choose to go in again alone, they get the story mode version, in a way it would be like those other 4 were not there as part of the ingame lore / canon if you get what i mean.
If i misunderstood your question i apologize
But loving that new info, i was gonna ask why Nente and the others would be hostile towards us, then i remembered they would most likely have been caught in the foefire as well.....
Makes me wonder if the catacombs lead to a certain area if Adelburn is the boss of the dungeon (Gonna keep where a secret for those who have not read GOA, but other readers should know where im referring to)
Also did i read that right, the dredge were sold into slavery under the seraph?
I always imagined the Seraph to be a major unit for peace and honor, what would they need slaves for?, unless i just majorly misunderstood that comment.
Awesome info though, very happy to know we will be seeing 3 familiar faces from GW1, even if they are out to murder us
Cannot wait to kick Adelburn's rear
Gotta wonder too though, anyone think we may see Rurik again if there is a dungeon or hidden area on the ring of fire?
Loving the info though, my hype meter is nearing critical mass with all these new tidbits of info, bring on the beta! :D
And i agree with CMEPTb, kinda hoping for more than 8 Dungeons, perhaps there are 8 story dungeons and then X amount of dungeons just purely for fun with no story mode attached?
- Tsukasa|||Wow, the profession trainers didn't make it out of the foe fire?? I feel sad already...|||I would like a Ghostly Necromancer Munne as a mini. I wonder if the
Spoiler
Golem's Eye
can be found at the end of the Ascalon Catacombs Dungeon (I hope so)?
@ Alaris below V
LOL|||They've been training all this time? Woah, that'll be fun...|||Quote:
Wow, the profession trainers didn't make it out of the foe fire?? I feel sad already...
Yeah it is kinda sad to think about, but i like to think of it as at least we get to see them again, even if they aren't happy to see us.
Wonder if other Ascalon based characters will make appearances too, wasn't Necromancer Muune (spelling?) Still alive? there is always a chance they might show up in there as well, for all we know all the remaining proffesion trainers could be in one big room before Adelburn (presuming that is a typo)
But if i think about it, in GOA...
Spoiler
Wasn't all of Ascalons populace inside Ascalon city during the final Charr invasion?
I seem to remember the story stating that the Charr had surrounded the city when that small unit of charr broke in and found Savione in Adelburns tower, then after they left the city to give news of Adelburns power the charr made their assault and Adelburn cast the Foefire.
So most likely any Asclonian NPC's still alive at that point would have been within the city walls at the point of the Foefire, so im guessing the proffesion trainers were fighting off the charr that were breaking in, similar to how we were defending Lions arch at the end of WIK?
@ CMEPTb
The spoilered thing would be AWESOME to find, either to gain a new skill / power or just to sell for a huge amount
And also regarding that.
Spoiler
Wonder if we could take it to Dougal or Clagg and get a special reward or quest involving it, hell even a special dialogue would be worth it
Hell i would love to find Dougals last sword he dropped down the pit, would be a fine weapon for my future Warrior :D
That is presuming that they are in GW2, but i cant see ANET leaving those kinda people out, i wanna meet Dougal more than anyone :D
- Tsukasa|||Quote:
* some dungeons will be familiar to gw1 players.... At around level thirty you'll be able to enter the ascalon catacombs. The spirits there are restless, so a charr comander and rytlock lead you in to lay them to rest. You might recognise some of the more powerful spirits in this dungeon as the profession trainers from gw1!! ''master ranger nente can teleport and shoot waves of arrows that cover part of the room, forcing you to hide behind objects in the environment.''
*''warmaster grast smashes players and the environment with his oversized, half-ghost hammer, and you can grab the chunks of rubble he knocks out to throw them back.''
*''finally, theres necromancer munne and the boss of the dungeon, king adelmen. (is that a typo?? Please tell me it is!)
Want. Want now!!!
Edit: Apparently, you aren't allowed to type in all caps. hehe!|||Quote:
I am curious about the dungeons though. I had the understanding that all dungeons are for teams of 5? How does it work if some are doing the dungeon for the first time and some have already completed the "story mode" version?
Notice the part where it's said that in Story Mode (as in, the first time doing it) some members from the Divinity's Edge group will join with you, much like henchmen.
I guess this is Anet's way to allow for team tactics in your personal story, while still remaining personal.
So if someone wants to never team at all (sounds very unlikely considering how intuitive teaming is) they still will be able to "see" the dungeons.
----------
I also thought about creating a new thread for this, but I wasn't certain if it was news worthy enough for having a big discussion on it.
Seems I was wrong.
The relevant bits:
Quote:
*Yay new info! (No matter how small) As you go along the personal story you'll be playing through a new dungeon about once every 10 levels or so.
* ''The story of each [dungeon] focuses on one or more of the Destiny's Edge, a guild of heroes who reliably saved the world untill some dark events split them apart. It is your objective to get them back together.' Woo its getting juicy.
*''The first time you play a dungeon, you'll play through its Story Mode, where one or two members of Destiny's Edge show up as friendly NPCs to drive the story foward.''
*Although story driven, dungeons arent all about sitting around talking. Its about fighting. ''Even one that starts out as a party in a mansion quickly turns to combat''
*''Beating a dungeon's Story Mode will unlock its Explorable Mode, a harder version of the dungeon which tells varied follow-up stories in that same area, unrelated to Destinys edge''
* They say that the explorer dungeon mode is meant to be really repeatable. It'll have many different scenarios and enemies that could appear each time (while not being random.)
* Eric says that in Gw1 after you've done the missions a few times the story stuff stops being interesting, and can get in the way of you having fun. People were skipping cutscenes.
* ''So what we wanted to do was to provide people with a linear story mode with lots of cutscenes, lots of story going on, lots of exposition. And then for the explorable mode it can be a lot more freeform, where can just jump in and you're dealing with something that doesnt need as much explanation, doesnt have a lot of cutscenes, and its got a lot of replayability built into it because there are different ways to complete it or different paths to take''
*Woo they give an example of a dungeon that isnt the beetletun mansion. The Sorrows Embrace dungeon is a hideout for the Dredge. If you play it on story mode youll discover that the Dredge leaders have sold their people into slavery under the Seraph. So you fight off all the slavers (sound familiar, anyone??? Awesome). So after you've completed that explorable mode will open up and you can do things like ''aid the dredge workers who are now planning to revult against their corrupt leaders''
* Some dungeons will be familiar to Gw1 players.... At around level thirty you'll be able to enter the Ascalon catacombs. The spirits there are restless, so a Charr comander and Rytlock lead you in to lay them to rest. You might recognise some of the more powerful spirits in this dungeon as the profession trainers from GW1!! ''Master Ranger Nente can teleport and shoot waves of arrows that cover part of the room, forcing you to hide behind objects in the environment.''
*''Warmaster Grast smashes players and the environment with his oversized, half-ghost hammer, and you can grab the chunks of rubble he knocks out to throw them back.''
*''Finally, theres Necromancer Munne and the boss of the dungeon, King Adelmen. (Is that a typo?? Please tell me it is!)
*Rewards from dungeons will be the same statisticly as other high end rewards. No one will be forced to play a dungeon. (Kind of a given, but really nice to hear it stated again)
* Though the gear will not be statistically more powerful it will have unique appearances that are directly tied into the theme of the dungeon and 'visually striking'. (bonus mission pack, anyone? )
*It says A.net dont want the rewards to be based on chance. No one should have to complete the dungeon many times and maybe even get the same item they already have twice. They remedy this by rewarding players with an item that can be traded for the desired peice of equipment. This way its never random what you get, you can pick and choose yourself. (Just like doa and the tormented weapons, for example)
I'm liking the sound of that.
A lot.|||Woah! That sounds awesome!
I hope GW2 has more than just 8 dungeons.|||Yay awesome info in there! I had to yank it out of the awesomesauce thread (even though it is awesomesauce) because it deserves its own topic.
I am curious about the dungeons though. I had the understanding that all dungeons are for teams of 5? How does it work if some are doing the dungeon for the first time and some have already completed the "story mode" version?
Hooray for Ascalon Catacombs! and wootness for "reward trophy" type rewards instead of randomness!|||Quote:
I am curious about the dungeons though. I had the understanding that all dungeons are for teams of 5? How does it work if some are doing the dungeon for the first time and some have already completed the "story mode" version?
Im not sure myself, but wasn't it said in the past that only the party leader counts towards story content done?
So perhaps once you have done a story mode of the dungeon, people you party with who have not done it yet will just play through the explorable mode with you (Team of 5), and then if they choose to go in again alone, they get the story mode version, in a way it would be like those other 4 were not there as part of the ingame lore / canon if you get what i mean.
If i misunderstood your question i apologize
But loving that new info, i was gonna ask why Nente and the others would be hostile towards us, then i remembered they would most likely have been caught in the foefire as well.....
Makes me wonder if the catacombs lead to a certain area if Adelburn is the boss of the dungeon (Gonna keep where a secret for those who have not read GOA, but other readers should know where im referring to)
Also did i read that right, the dredge were sold into slavery under the seraph?
I always imagined the Seraph to be a major unit for peace and honor, what would they need slaves for?, unless i just majorly misunderstood that comment.
Awesome info though, very happy to know we will be seeing 3 familiar faces from GW1, even if they are out to murder us
Cannot wait to kick Adelburn's rear
Gotta wonder too though, anyone think we may see Rurik again if there is a dungeon or hidden area on the ring of fire?
Loving the info though, my hype meter is nearing critical mass with all these new tidbits of info, bring on the beta! :D
And i agree with CMEPTb, kinda hoping for more than 8 Dungeons, perhaps there are 8 story dungeons and then X amount of dungeons just purely for fun with no story mode attached?
- Tsukasa|||Wow, the profession trainers didn't make it out of the foe fire?? I feel sad already...|||I would like a Ghostly Necromancer Munne as a mini. I wonder if the
Spoiler
Golem's Eye
can be found at the end of the Ascalon Catacombs Dungeon (I hope so)?
@ Alaris below V
LOL|||They've been training all this time? Woah, that'll be fun...|||Quote:
Wow, the profession trainers didn't make it out of the foe fire?? I feel sad already...
Yeah it is kinda sad to think about, but i like to think of it as at least we get to see them again, even if they aren't happy to see us.
Wonder if other Ascalon based characters will make appearances too, wasn't Necromancer Muune (spelling?) Still alive? there is always a chance they might show up in there as well, for all we know all the remaining proffesion trainers could be in one big room before Adelburn (presuming that is a typo)
But if i think about it, in GOA...
Spoiler
Wasn't all of Ascalons populace inside Ascalon city during the final Charr invasion?
I seem to remember the story stating that the Charr had surrounded the city when that small unit of charr broke in and found Savione in Adelburns tower, then after they left the city to give news of Adelburns power the charr made their assault and Adelburn cast the Foefire.
So most likely any Asclonian NPC's still alive at that point would have been within the city walls at the point of the Foefire, so im guessing the proffesion trainers were fighting off the charr that were breaking in, similar to how we were defending Lions arch at the end of WIK?
@ CMEPTb
The spoilered thing would be AWESOME to find, either to gain a new skill / power or just to sell for a huge amount
And also regarding that.
Spoiler
Wonder if we could take it to Dougal or Clagg and get a special reward or quest involving it, hell even a special dialogue would be worth it
Hell i would love to find Dougals last sword he dropped down the pit, would be a fine weapon for my future Warrior :D
That is presuming that they are in GW2, but i cant see ANET leaving those kinda people out, i wanna meet Dougal more than anyone :D
- Tsukasa|||Quote:
* some dungeons will be familiar to gw1 players.... At around level thirty you'll be able to enter the ascalon catacombs. The spirits there are restless, so a charr comander and rytlock lead you in to lay them to rest. You might recognise some of the more powerful spirits in this dungeon as the profession trainers from gw1!! ''master ranger nente can teleport and shoot waves of arrows that cover part of the room, forcing you to hide behind objects in the environment.''
*''warmaster grast smashes players and the environment with his oversized, half-ghost hammer, and you can grab the chunks of rubble he knocks out to throw them back.''
*''finally, theres necromancer munne and the boss of the dungeon, king adelmen. (is that a typo?? Please tell me it is!)
Want. Want now!!!
Edit: Apparently, you aren't allowed to type in all caps. hehe!|||Quote:
I am curious about the dungeons though. I had the understanding that all dungeons are for teams of 5? How does it work if some are doing the dungeon for the first time and some have already completed the "story mode" version?
Notice the part where it's said that in Story Mode (as in, the first time doing it) some members from the Divinity's Edge group will join with you, much like henchmen.
I guess this is Anet's way to allow for team tactics in your personal story, while still remaining personal.
So if someone wants to never team at all (sounds very unlikely considering how intuitive teaming is) they still will be able to "see" the dungeons.
----------
I also thought about creating a new thread for this, but I wasn't certain if it was news worthy enough for having a big discussion on it.
Seems I was wrong.
GW2 Dungeon Discussion
I know we don't know much about dungeons in GW2, other than the fact that they are in the game. It was mentioned that the mansion in Beetletun has a dungeon in it. I made this thread to discuss what you would like to see from the dungeons in GW2.
Personally I would like to see multilevel dungeons with a randomized map so that each playthrough is not exactly the same. I think it would add a lot of replay value to each dungeon if the map changes every time. Failing that dungeons with multiple paths to the end would also be nice.
I would also like to see some non-enemy obstacles in the dungeons. Things like traps or locked doors to which you need to find the keys. That is one aspect I liked about dungeons in Eotn and would like to see it again in GW2.
What would you like to see in the dungeons of GW2?|||Dungeons and elite areas: have ways to do a bit at a time, preferably not in sequential order. Slavers was good, except I think there`s no need to keep the last boss last... instead I`d have the end chest open-able only for those people who did all bosses, so you don`t have to pass just because you didn`t do X or Y boss first.|||I would like to see dungeons that aren't dungeons.
For example, I'm hoping the Beetletun Mansion is of this kind.
In other words, I want a place where I can test my mettle and teamwork fighting through traps, enemies, events and epic bosses while skimming through some general treasure until you obtain your final reward. But these places don't necessary need to have the whole dark, underground and claustraphobic feeling that dungeons usually have.
Torchlight is a nice example. Its dungeon levels vary in theme while you progress, even though you're still underground.
-------------------
Besides the theme, I also want to see traps (either mechanical like mines or poison jets or monster ambushes), bonus areas that give you an advantage (treasure chests, buffs, healing and ressurecting your teamates or even revealing the boss's weakness).
-------------------
I also want to see puzzles. It's always a pleasure playing a Zelda game because of its dungeons and clever puzzles (having great bosses also helps). Make it better by having some puzzles requiring cooperation. Don't make them require the full team, since having less party members should be a valid way to increase the challenge yourself, but having that option is always nice.
---------------------
I don't want to see randomized dungeons.
Okay, to be fair, it would be okay to have 1 randomized dungeon. The problem with randomized dungeons (and the reason why Torchlight ended up getting boring) is that you can't really make unique content, (for example, the Bettletun Mansion's party crashing scenario) or unique bosses. I prefer playing through unique content then through a re-skinned dungeon of the usual monster-bashing that ends up in a boss-skill-smasher without any feel of epicness.|||Quote:
Okay, to be fair, it would be okay to have 1 randomized dungeon. The problem with randomized dungeons is that you can't really make unique content, or unique bosses.
Nonsense.
I expect them to make dungeons in a DII fashion, which includes random layouts. However I also expect them to make 'unique content'* like the party crashing mansion in Beetletun. That's simply the start which is scripted, planned and designed. Why not have a randomized descent toward the final Beetletun Mansion boss? Why not have other missions have sections (beginning, mid or end) with that heavy level of design, like the Beetletun partycrashing? Why not have them have some kind of randomization as well? Randomization of content is massively important in preventing PvE gimmicks.
*why isn't randomized content unique? It's probably 'more unique' as oxymoronic as that sounds, since the experience is by definition repeated less often. But tangential linguistics discussion so ok whatever.|||Quote:
Nonsense.
I expect them to make dungeons in a DII fashion, which includes random layouts. However I also expect them to make 'unique content'* like the party crashing mansion in Beetletun. That's simply the start which is scripted, planned and designed.
See, and here is the problem.
It's not just the start that is scripted.
The Party Crashing is nothing more then an excuse for a theme.
It's the specific location of puzzles and traps, that take into account the floor layout and theme that a random generator, by today's standards, can't really accomplish.
To use a great example, look at Zelda dungeons (yes, I keep talking about Zelda, because those are dungeons done good, everyone bear with me).
Do you really beleive a randomized system would work on any part (start, middle, end) of any dungeon? Of course not. The puzzles sometimes take into account the whole dungeon map, sometimes entires floors. A random generator can't think ahead like this, at least, not for now.
Quote:
Why not have a randomized descent toward the final Beetletun Mansion boss? Why not have other missions have sections (beginning, mid or end) with that heavy level of design, like the Beetletun partycrashing? Why not have them have some kind of randomization as well? Randomization of content is massively important in preventing PvE gimmicks.
Look at Torchlight.
Did you find those dungeons fun after the 10th time you entered them? I didn't. You were still running from Point A to Point B killing everything in your sight until the next floor.
As I explained above, the fun core of a good dungeon is in the way to effectively force you to think on how to advance. A generator cannot, I repeat, cannot create great puzzles, only mediocre ones at best. A generator is able to place ambushes and traps, but it cannot generate a highly scripted chase scene that leads you into a trap which ends up being part of a multi-floor puzzle. A generator cannot create unique and interesting boss fights "on the fly" either. It can grab a pre-existing model, slap him some stat upgrades and call him a boss, but we all know how that turned out in GW1.
It can, however, place these pre-created scripts at random in each dungeon playthrough, but that ends up not solving anything.
You're still going to have people create the best strategies on how to tackle these randomly placed events. You'll just have to factor in the possibility of that particualr event not showing up, which is not a problem.
Quote:
*why isn't randomized content unique? It's probably 'more unique' as oxymoronic as that sounds, since the experience is by definition repeated less often. But tangential linguistics discussion so ok whatever.
My bad here. When I mean't unique, I mean't original content that gives you enjoyement. In leet speak, epic stuff.|||Theres no challenge in randomised content
or you get a set of enemies that suddenly perma wipe your team because of the way the game spawned them
not to mention that people like a ballpark idea of how long its going to take to get from the start to finish of something
a randomised dungeon could be anything|||I wouldn't like randomized dungeons.
Partly because I don't think the result would look believable - I thought about Diablo and how all those levels looked just like that - randomly thrown together, making no sense.
But also because I like knowing what to expect from a dungeon where I went before. Or read about, of course.
OTOH, I wouldn't like the same dungeon template copied several times. That's just as bad.
Of course, a randomized dungeon could be introduced with a good story explanation. But it should be an exception.|||Quote:
I would like to see dungeons that aren't dungeons.
Quote:
Dungeons and elite areas: have ways to do a bit at a time, preferably not in sequential order.
Varying dungeon themes are a plus I think, and a way to pause a dungeon run and resume it later would also be very helpful.
Quote:
I also want to see puzzles. It's always a pleasure playing a Zelda game because of its dungeons and clever puzzles (having great bosses also helps). Make it better by having some puzzles requiring cooperation. Don't make them require the full team, since having less party members should be a valid way to increase the challenge yourself, but having that option is always nice.
I'm also a fan of the idea of putting in puzzles in the dungeons. Though perhaps you may have to make the puzzles optional to complete because otherwise some people may be unable to solve the dungeon because of the puzzles. Having the puzzles be optional but having them offer increased rewards from the dungeon would allow everyone to get the final reward but reward those who did go out of their way to solve the puzzles.
Quote:
As I explained above, the fun core of a good dungeon is in the way to effectively force you to think on how to advance. A generator cannot, I repeat, cannot create great puzzles, only mediocre ones at best. A generator is able to place ambushes and traps, but it cannot generate a highly scripted chase scene that leads you into a trap which ends up being part of a multi-floor puzzle. A generator cannot create unique and interesting boss fights "on the fly" either. It can grab a pre-existing model, slap him some stat upgrades and call him a boss, but we all know how that turned out in GW1.
I agree that generating a dungeon completely at random generally does not create an interesting and unique dungeon. Therefore I propose a dungeon having some unique rooms that do not change, while randomizing some of the content to add replay value. If ANet creates many different rooms, each with their own enemies, traps and puzzles you can make each dungeon unique but also interesting on every playthrough. Zelda dungeons are truly unique but they lose replay value very quickly since they are always the same every time you play.
Imagine the final dungeon of Ocarina of Time (the one with the main room leading to all the side rooms you had to complete in order to climb to the boss) with randomized content. The main room and the objectives at the end of each of the side rooms are still there, but now the path to those objectives changes. The path to the side fire objective could be the room filled with fire where you need to collect all the silver rupees (as it is now) or it could be a torch lighting puzzle or it could be a timed room where you need to kill enemies before the ceiling falls or something else entirely. The same would be true for all of the other side objectives.
The overall dungeon layout and the central objective would remain unique but the path to the objective would change each time, offering much better replay value.
However if random content still does not appeal would multiple set layouts of the dungeon be better in your opinion? That way if you play through the dungeon once you get floor 1A, and if you play a second time you get floor 1B. That way unique content can be created that also has replay value. It might take longer to create a bunch of entirely new unique floors though.|||I would like to see (and I am sure it will be) dungeons which do not borrow from other dungeons .
...
I would not mind seeing...
-A few dungeons set up with the event system where your choices can change the outcome of a dungeon.
-Some start and go straight through until the end dungeons.
-To have some random NPCs in some dungeons that can start further new personal story lines for you back "home".|||Quote:
I would like to see (and I am sure it will be) dungeons which do not borrow from other dungeons.
Always a good thing and one of the main reasons I did not like some of the dungeons in EotN.
Quote:
-A few dungeons set up with the event system where your choices can change the outcome of a dungeon.
That would be a cool idea. But I don't think it will happen. I get the impression events are supposed to be public things anyone can join in at any one time so I doubt you would find them in an instanced dungeon area which you can only enter as a party. You never know though.
Personally I would like to see multilevel dungeons with a randomized map so that each playthrough is not exactly the same. I think it would add a lot of replay value to each dungeon if the map changes every time. Failing that dungeons with multiple paths to the end would also be nice.
I would also like to see some non-enemy obstacles in the dungeons. Things like traps or locked doors to which you need to find the keys. That is one aspect I liked about dungeons in Eotn and would like to see it again in GW2.
What would you like to see in the dungeons of GW2?|||Dungeons and elite areas: have ways to do a bit at a time, preferably not in sequential order. Slavers was good, except I think there`s no need to keep the last boss last... instead I`d have the end chest open-able only for those people who did all bosses, so you don`t have to pass just because you didn`t do X or Y boss first.|||I would like to see dungeons that aren't dungeons.
For example, I'm hoping the Beetletun Mansion is of this kind.
In other words, I want a place where I can test my mettle and teamwork fighting through traps, enemies, events and epic bosses while skimming through some general treasure until you obtain your final reward. But these places don't necessary need to have the whole dark, underground and claustraphobic feeling that dungeons usually have.
Torchlight is a nice example. Its dungeon levels vary in theme while you progress, even though you're still underground.
-------------------
Besides the theme, I also want to see traps (either mechanical like mines or poison jets or monster ambushes), bonus areas that give you an advantage (treasure chests, buffs, healing and ressurecting your teamates or even revealing the boss's weakness).
-------------------
I also want to see puzzles. It's always a pleasure playing a Zelda game because of its dungeons and clever puzzles (having great bosses also helps). Make it better by having some puzzles requiring cooperation. Don't make them require the full team, since having less party members should be a valid way to increase the challenge yourself, but having that option is always nice.
---------------------
I don't want to see randomized dungeons.
Okay, to be fair, it would be okay to have 1 randomized dungeon. The problem with randomized dungeons (and the reason why Torchlight ended up getting boring) is that you can't really make unique content, (for example, the Bettletun Mansion's party crashing scenario) or unique bosses. I prefer playing through unique content then through a re-skinned dungeon of the usual monster-bashing that ends up in a boss-skill-smasher without any feel of epicness.|||Quote:
Okay, to be fair, it would be okay to have 1 randomized dungeon. The problem with randomized dungeons is that you can't really make unique content, or unique bosses.
Nonsense.
I expect them to make dungeons in a DII fashion, which includes random layouts. However I also expect them to make 'unique content'* like the party crashing mansion in Beetletun. That's simply the start which is scripted, planned and designed. Why not have a randomized descent toward the final Beetletun Mansion boss? Why not have other missions have sections (beginning, mid or end) with that heavy level of design, like the Beetletun partycrashing? Why not have them have some kind of randomization as well? Randomization of content is massively important in preventing PvE gimmicks.
*why isn't randomized content unique? It's probably 'more unique' as oxymoronic as that sounds, since the experience is by definition repeated less often. But tangential linguistics discussion so ok whatever.|||Quote:
Nonsense.
I expect them to make dungeons in a DII fashion, which includes random layouts. However I also expect them to make 'unique content'* like the party crashing mansion in Beetletun. That's simply the start which is scripted, planned and designed.
See, and here is the problem.
It's not just the start that is scripted.
The Party Crashing is nothing more then an excuse for a theme.
It's the specific location of puzzles and traps, that take into account the floor layout and theme that a random generator, by today's standards, can't really accomplish.
To use a great example, look at Zelda dungeons (yes, I keep talking about Zelda, because those are dungeons done good, everyone bear with me).
Do you really beleive a randomized system would work on any part (start, middle, end) of any dungeon? Of course not. The puzzles sometimes take into account the whole dungeon map, sometimes entires floors. A random generator can't think ahead like this, at least, not for now.
Quote:
Why not have a randomized descent toward the final Beetletun Mansion boss? Why not have other missions have sections (beginning, mid or end) with that heavy level of design, like the Beetletun partycrashing? Why not have them have some kind of randomization as well? Randomization of content is massively important in preventing PvE gimmicks.
Look at Torchlight.
Did you find those dungeons fun after the 10th time you entered them? I didn't. You were still running from Point A to Point B killing everything in your sight until the next floor.
As I explained above, the fun core of a good dungeon is in the way to effectively force you to think on how to advance. A generator cannot, I repeat, cannot create great puzzles, only mediocre ones at best. A generator is able to place ambushes and traps, but it cannot generate a highly scripted chase scene that leads you into a trap which ends up being part of a multi-floor puzzle. A generator cannot create unique and interesting boss fights "on the fly" either. It can grab a pre-existing model, slap him some stat upgrades and call him a boss, but we all know how that turned out in GW1.
It can, however, place these pre-created scripts at random in each dungeon playthrough, but that ends up not solving anything.
You're still going to have people create the best strategies on how to tackle these randomly placed events. You'll just have to factor in the possibility of that particualr event not showing up, which is not a problem.
Quote:
*why isn't randomized content unique? It's probably 'more unique' as oxymoronic as that sounds, since the experience is by definition repeated less often. But tangential linguistics discussion so ok whatever.
My bad here. When I mean't unique, I mean't original content that gives you enjoyement. In leet speak, epic stuff.|||Theres no challenge in randomised content
or you get a set of enemies that suddenly perma wipe your team because of the way the game spawned them
not to mention that people like a ballpark idea of how long its going to take to get from the start to finish of something
a randomised dungeon could be anything|||I wouldn't like randomized dungeons.
Partly because I don't think the result would look believable - I thought about Diablo and how all those levels looked just like that - randomly thrown together, making no sense.
But also because I like knowing what to expect from a dungeon where I went before. Or read about, of course.
OTOH, I wouldn't like the same dungeon template copied several times. That's just as bad.
Of course, a randomized dungeon could be introduced with a good story explanation. But it should be an exception.|||Quote:
I would like to see dungeons that aren't dungeons.
Quote:
Dungeons and elite areas: have ways to do a bit at a time, preferably not in sequential order.
Varying dungeon themes are a plus I think, and a way to pause a dungeon run and resume it later would also be very helpful.
Quote:
I also want to see puzzles. It's always a pleasure playing a Zelda game because of its dungeons and clever puzzles (having great bosses also helps). Make it better by having some puzzles requiring cooperation. Don't make them require the full team, since having less party members should be a valid way to increase the challenge yourself, but having that option is always nice.
I'm also a fan of the idea of putting in puzzles in the dungeons. Though perhaps you may have to make the puzzles optional to complete because otherwise some people may be unable to solve the dungeon because of the puzzles. Having the puzzles be optional but having them offer increased rewards from the dungeon would allow everyone to get the final reward but reward those who did go out of their way to solve the puzzles.
Quote:
As I explained above, the fun core of a good dungeon is in the way to effectively force you to think on how to advance. A generator cannot, I repeat, cannot create great puzzles, only mediocre ones at best. A generator is able to place ambushes and traps, but it cannot generate a highly scripted chase scene that leads you into a trap which ends up being part of a multi-floor puzzle. A generator cannot create unique and interesting boss fights "on the fly" either. It can grab a pre-existing model, slap him some stat upgrades and call him a boss, but we all know how that turned out in GW1.
I agree that generating a dungeon completely at random generally does not create an interesting and unique dungeon. Therefore I propose a dungeon having some unique rooms that do not change, while randomizing some of the content to add replay value. If ANet creates many different rooms, each with their own enemies, traps and puzzles you can make each dungeon unique but also interesting on every playthrough. Zelda dungeons are truly unique but they lose replay value very quickly since they are always the same every time you play.
Imagine the final dungeon of Ocarina of Time (the one with the main room leading to all the side rooms you had to complete in order to climb to the boss) with randomized content. The main room and the objectives at the end of each of the side rooms are still there, but now the path to those objectives changes. The path to the side fire objective could be the room filled with fire where you need to collect all the silver rupees (as it is now) or it could be a torch lighting puzzle or it could be a timed room where you need to kill enemies before the ceiling falls or something else entirely. The same would be true for all of the other side objectives.
The overall dungeon layout and the central objective would remain unique but the path to the objective would change each time, offering much better replay value.
However if random content still does not appeal would multiple set layouts of the dungeon be better in your opinion? That way if you play through the dungeon once you get floor 1A, and if you play a second time you get floor 1B. That way unique content can be created that also has replay value. It might take longer to create a bunch of entirely new unique floors though.|||I would like to see (and I am sure it will be) dungeons which do not borrow from other dungeons .
...
I would not mind seeing...
-A few dungeons set up with the event system where your choices can change the outcome of a dungeon.
-Some start and go straight through until the end dungeons.
-To have some random NPCs in some dungeons that can start further new personal story lines for you back "home".|||Quote:
I would like to see (and I am sure it will be) dungeons which do not borrow from other dungeons.
Always a good thing and one of the main reasons I did not like some of the dungeons in EotN.
Quote:
-A few dungeons set up with the event system where your choices can change the outcome of a dungeon.
That would be a cool idea. But I don't think it will happen. I get the impression events are supposed to be public things anyone can join in at any one time so I doubt you would find them in an instanced dungeon area which you can only enter as a party. You never know though.
Live and Let Dye
Kristen Perry has posted a new article on how dye works in GW2 on the ANet blog.
http://www.arena.net/blog/live-and-l...gw2-dye-system
Quote:
I�ve been thinking for months now about how to describe the new dye system to you, which has been completely redesigned and is much more flexible than the original. There�s one big change I knew would surprise the �dye hard� fans, so I figured I should reveal that information first. Besides, if we all have the collective gasp at the beginning, I�ll know at least everyone will have a full tank of oxygen in their brains to read the rest of the article.
Here�s the deal: there�s no more mixing.
There, I said it. Now here�s why it�s the bee�s knees!|||Im happy to see that you can dye more than 1 place on a single piece. Truly is interesting.|||What I was more impressed by were the pictures in the article.
The armor types, some of those armors on the Norn look straight dirty.|||This new dye system sounds fun. I'm curious to see how dyes will be unlocked.|||Great article. That just looks amazing. Can't wait to try it in game when it actually ships. And I must say some of those armors look amazing. Can we please get some more screens of those? Also:
Quote:
it would be a travesty to never have a long trench coat,
Could not agree more.|||Sounds like they want to make you pay for the really cool ones via the in-game store for real-world cash to me (in reference to "unlocking" outside the game). I'm going to sit on the sidelines when they release this till I find out more about all the microtransactions I THINK I see coming with GW2.|||Wow this sounds awesome! I love that we don't have to mix dyes anymore, and unlocking them once is great, so we don't have to buy 10 different colors of the dye every time we get a new armor. At least, that's what it sounds like - once you unlock the dye color you can get it for free. I hope so anyway.
But regardless, it's still cool that we can also dye more parts of our armor. And the armors in the pictures looked pic. I wonder if this will work the same for weapons.|||A couple things that jumped out at me that could use clarification.
1) "The dye hues themselves will be unlockable through various means, both in-game and out."
The last word worries me. I don't look forward to "deals" like "buy four character slots in the next week, and get the Leet Pink dye color, not available by any other means!" A word from a dev to squash these fears would be greatly appreciated.
2) "To ensure that the five races have their own identities, we’ve created a cultural palette that reflects the character of the species. This means a red color for a human may not look the same as a red color for a norn or charr."
I'm confused. Does this mean races get different colors at the start (turquoise for asura, aquamarine for sylvari, sky blue for humans, etc), or does it mean the same color looks differently depending on which race is wearing it?
And if it's the former (which I'm inclined to believe), wouldn't you just get all five racial palettes by rolling up a character of each race, negating the whole point?
Quote:
Wow this sounds awesome! I love that we don't have to mix dyes anymore, and unlocking them once is great, so we don't have to buy 10 different colors of the dye every time we get a new armor. At least, that's what it sounds like - once you unlock the dye color you can get it for free. I hope so anyway.
That is what it says. Dye are unlockables, not physical items. Which is awesome.|||Quote:
Sounds like they want to make you pay for the really cool ones via the in-game store for real-world cash to me (in reference to "unlocking" outside the game). I'm going to sit on the sidelines when they release this till I find out more about all the microtransactions I THINK I see coming with GW2.
I'm no insider so this is just an opinion based on my experiences with Anet. I would tend to believe that, if colors are offered for purchase, it would be like the skill packs in GWO - you can unlock them individually by playing, or purchase them all at once.|||Quote:
Sounds like they want to make you pay for the really cool ones via the in-game store for real-world cash to me (in reference to "unlocking" outside the game).
Seems likely, yes. At least for later made "special" colors.
OTOH, if all they sell are colors, who cares? Colors and costumes don't affect gameplay, they just make it more pretty.
There has to be a drawback to a subscription-free game. If it's no more than buyable pretties, I couldn't care less.
--
Interesting article nonetheless.
http://www.arena.net/blog/live-and-l...gw2-dye-system
Quote:
I�ve been thinking for months now about how to describe the new dye system to you, which has been completely redesigned and is much more flexible than the original. There�s one big change I knew would surprise the �dye hard� fans, so I figured I should reveal that information first. Besides, if we all have the collective gasp at the beginning, I�ll know at least everyone will have a full tank of oxygen in their brains to read the rest of the article.
Here�s the deal: there�s no more mixing.
There, I said it. Now here�s why it�s the bee�s knees!|||Im happy to see that you can dye more than 1 place on a single piece. Truly is interesting.|||What I was more impressed by were the pictures in the article.
The armor types, some of those armors on the Norn look straight dirty.|||This new dye system sounds fun. I'm curious to see how dyes will be unlocked.|||Great article. That just looks amazing. Can't wait to try it in game when it actually ships. And I must say some of those armors look amazing. Can we please get some more screens of those? Also:
Quote:
it would be a travesty to never have a long trench coat,
Could not agree more.|||Sounds like they want to make you pay for the really cool ones via the in-game store for real-world cash to me (in reference to "unlocking" outside the game). I'm going to sit on the sidelines when they release this till I find out more about all the microtransactions I THINK I see coming with GW2.|||Wow this sounds awesome! I love that we don't have to mix dyes anymore, and unlocking them once is great, so we don't have to buy 10 different colors of the dye every time we get a new armor. At least, that's what it sounds like - once you unlock the dye color you can get it for free. I hope so anyway.
But regardless, it's still cool that we can also dye more parts of our armor. And the armors in the pictures looked pic. I wonder if this will work the same for weapons.|||A couple things that jumped out at me that could use clarification.
1) "The dye hues themselves will be unlockable through various means, both in-game and out."
The last word worries me. I don't look forward to "deals" like "buy four character slots in the next week, and get the Leet Pink dye color, not available by any other means!" A word from a dev to squash these fears would be greatly appreciated.
2) "To ensure that the five races have their own identities, we’ve created a cultural palette that reflects the character of the species. This means a red color for a human may not look the same as a red color for a norn or charr."
I'm confused. Does this mean races get different colors at the start (turquoise for asura, aquamarine for sylvari, sky blue for humans, etc), or does it mean the same color looks differently depending on which race is wearing it?
And if it's the former (which I'm inclined to believe), wouldn't you just get all five racial palettes by rolling up a character of each race, negating the whole point?
Quote:
Wow this sounds awesome! I love that we don't have to mix dyes anymore, and unlocking them once is great, so we don't have to buy 10 different colors of the dye every time we get a new armor. At least, that's what it sounds like - once you unlock the dye color you can get it for free. I hope so anyway.
That is what it says. Dye are unlockables, not physical items. Which is awesome.|||Quote:
Sounds like they want to make you pay for the really cool ones via the in-game store for real-world cash to me (in reference to "unlocking" outside the game). I'm going to sit on the sidelines when they release this till I find out more about all the microtransactions I THINK I see coming with GW2.
I'm no insider so this is just an opinion based on my experiences with Anet. I would tend to believe that, if colors are offered for purchase, it would be like the skill packs in GWO - you can unlock them individually by playing, or purchase them all at once.|||Quote:
Sounds like they want to make you pay for the really cool ones via the in-game store for real-world cash to me (in reference to "unlocking" outside the game).
Seems likely, yes. At least for later made "special" colors.
OTOH, if all they sell are colors, who cares? Colors and costumes don't affect gameplay, they just make it more pretty.
There has to be a drawback to a subscription-free game. If it's no more than buyable pretties, I couldn't care less.
--
Interesting article nonetheless.
Addon support
While gw1 was great for the ability to move and scale almost every aspect of the UI, it was missing a very important feature - third party addons. I'm sure everyone remembers the discovery of Texmod and how explosively it took off, with .tpf files popping up left and right.
Wouldn't it be great if support for such things was built right into the game? Here's three examples of UI's I've thrown together with the use of addons:
Spoiler
Aside from changing many things aesthetically, there are also many addons available for people who like information overload, like myself.
(Admittedly I've never even used these two parts of Recount, but they're neat nonetheless):
Quite an improvement from the Master of Damage, and the Damage Log on gw1.
From what I"ve seen, the UI of gw2 looks great as it is, but that's no reason not to include an API for people to create niche UI elements which may not be included in the default. With all the great information being released lately like the mobile apps and not-sucky pve, it would be a shame to overlook such an important part of an MMO.|||The only way I'd say ok is if they had a method in place to prevent people making addons that function as hacks.
Otherwise, I'm not sure if I like the idea or not. I'd have to think about it.|||Addons like the Recount one are perfectly fine for obvious reasons.
The problem is that it creates an unprecedent. If you allow UI-modification addons, then you also will be allowing something like animation changing that can inbalance the competitive aspect.
This already happened in GW1 with texmod. Some guilds changed the skill animations to allow way easier reaction of when and what skills to interrupt by changing the animation to a big textbox that said INTERRUPT ME!!
The only way for this to work is if Anet has some sort of Approval system, where they look through the created addons and only allow those approved by them to get incorporated into the game, but that required moderators, and moderators don't work for free.
Information for after-battle reviewing, good. Awesome even.
Possibility of umbalanced behaviour due to addon, bad. Terribly bad even.|||Hacks? An addon "app store"? ..That's not how this stuff works... lol..
First of all, addons [and this is all in relation to Blizz of course] have to conform to the policy, which states:
Quote:
AddOns must be free of charge.
AddOn code must be completely visible.
AddOns must not negatively impact World of Warcraft realms or other players.
AddOns may not include advertisements.
AddOns may not solicit donations.
AddOns must not contain offensive or objectionable material.
AddOns must abide by World of Warcraft ToU and EULA.
Blizzard Entertainment has the right to disable AddOn functionality as it sees fit.
The last one has already happened a few times, when an addon was created which allowed people to draw diagrams right into the game world for anyone in the party. So they could show where void zones would be, and what their exact radius is, whether you were in range of totems, showed you which way to run, etc etc. Blizzard saw this addon and felt that this went too far, and broke its functionality in the next patch. Addons such as Deadly Boss Mods were allowed to continue, as they merely say that a boss is casting a given ability soon, not where you should go to avoid it.
When you write an addon you use the Lua programming language, and the WoW API. Therefore it's impossible to create an addon which is a "hack" or in Nemeon's example, replaces textures, as these would go outside of both the policy and the boundaries/capabilities of the API.
Further reading:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Addon
http://www.wowwiki.com/Getting_start...writing_addons
http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API
http://www.wowwiki.com/Lua_functions
http://www.wowwiki.com/XML_elements|||I don't play WoW, never have, and never will, so I didn't know about all these restrictions. If they have all those restrictions, then fine. Here is the big question though, if you develop something, is there a waiting period before you can use it while Blizzard looks it over? Or can you use it immediately until Blizzard spots it and removes it (in the case of a "hack"). The ONLY way I would want user-made add-ons to be allowed is if there was a waiting period, where your add-on was inspected to make sure no illegalities were made, BEFORE the add-on is available for use.
I'd hate to see something happen where a guild gets together and makes an add-on that would help give them a huge advantage over the other guilds in GvG, shoot up the ladder because of it, and then after the fact, have Anet remove it due to being illegal. Sure, Anet could probably send them the whole way back down the ladder, but would it reset the W-L record of every guild that lost to them? It's little things like that that need to be considered.
As long as Anet would be proactive in scanning over the add-ons before they become available for use, then I see no problems with add-ons. Any other way is unacceptable, IMO.
And this is coming from someone with a background in FPS where all kinds of hacks run rampant, pretty much ruining any fun you could have.|||I played warhammer online, which allowed addons, it was used mainly for making the issues of the game less of an issue. However, it gave those using addons a significant advantage over those who did not to the point where it was basically necessary to use to play the game. I do not want to feel like I must use addons to play gw2, as the functionality can vary greatly from one to another and they can become something you watch constantly, which bugs me.
I know, gw2 will not be as buggy or grindy a game as warhammer online so less addons will be used to help with that. I know why you want addons, and I can respect why you do... however there will be some that would ruin the game for me, of this I can be almost absolutely sure... so I don't like the idea, sorry.|||I agree completely with your reasoning shawn, you would know that from what I've previously argued for adding to gw2.
I would though still like things like these to just be in the game.|||This is awesomest part of WoW (that's not saying much coming from me, but their addon system really is great). Hell yes I'd want it in GW2.|||Quote:
if you develop something, is there a waiting period before you can use it while Blizzard looks it over? Or can you use it immediately until Blizzard spots it and removes it (in the case of a "hack"). The ONLY way I would want user-made add-ons to be allowed is if there was a waiting period, where your add-on was inspected to make sure no illegalities were made, BEFORE the add-on is available for use.
I'd hate to see something happen where a guild gets together and makes an add-on that would help give them a huge advantage over the other guilds in GvG, shoot up the ladder because of it, and then after the fact, have Anet remove it due to being illegal. Sure, Anet could probably send them the whole way back down the ladder, but would it reset the W-L record of every guild that lost to them? It's little things like that that need to be considered.
As long as Anet would be proactive in scanning over the add-ons before they become available for use, then I see no problems with add-ons. Any other way is unacceptable, IMO.
And this is coming from someone with a background in FPS where all kinds of hacks run rampant, pretty much ruining any fun you could have.
I think you're really, REALLY, overestimating what an addon can do. This is not like developing a mobile app for Android or iOS, where you have a software developing kit and Apple's ****ing ridiculous review board to get through (but my hatred of the app store is another story entirely) - addons have to work within the constraints of the addon API.
Quote:
API - An application programming interface is an interface implemented by a software program that enables it to interact with other software. It facilitates interaction between different software programs similar to the way the user interface facilitates interaction between humans and computers.
An API is implemented by applications, libraries, and operating systems to determine their vocabularies and calling conventions, and is used to access their services. It may include specifications for routines, data structures, object classes, and protocols used to communicate between the consumer and the implementer of the API.
So no - there is no "addon review panel." No one submits their addons to Blizzard to go over, because there's no need. Blizzard has already created the limitations within the API. Your addon can talk to the API, which then talks to the game. So you can say "hey, when I talk to this merchant, tell the game to auto-sell all the grey items in my inventory" and the API says "ok, I see here that's an acceptable request, can do."
But obviously there'd be no option for "hey, I'm going to sit here and pretend to be a mini-map modification but really I'm going to run in the background and keylog your username and password" because the API would not recognize such commands, and in turn, the game wouldn't be able to act on them.
Further, addons are all .xml and .lua files - similar to a text file or html file, not executable files - so you'd be unable to run a malicious program that way, either.
I've played my fair share of FPS games as well - don't get addons confused with mods and hacks. Similar to the above Apple app store example, you can download a software developer's kit for game modifications straight off Steam for free. (On the Tools tab it's the "Source SDK"). That involves a whole hell of a lot more work then simple UI addon scripts, however. A friend and I tried once.. then we realized we'd have to create models, textures, maps, sounds, and a bunch of other crap that was way over our heads. That idea didn't last much longer than a week.
So anyway, I don't really think I can explain it any better, nor do I want to, really. 95% of the forum probably had their eyes glaze over before the second paragraph anyway.|||Stats are fun. I like stats.
In fact, I'd like to go beyond personal stats and see, for example, what percentage of players have a warrior as their main, or what the top 10 skillbars for PvP have been over the last week.
A friend of mine who plays WoW was babbling about his character a couple days ago, and mentioned that he has a macro that automatically activates a random minipet when he moves if one isn't already out. Convenient little macros like that in GW would make my day.
Wouldn't it be great if support for such things was built right into the game? Here's three examples of UI's I've thrown together with the use of addons:
Spoiler
Aside from changing many things aesthetically, there are also many addons available for people who like information overload, like myself.
(Admittedly I've never even used these two parts of Recount, but they're neat nonetheless):
Quite an improvement from the Master of Damage, and the Damage Log on gw1.
From what I"ve seen, the UI of gw2 looks great as it is, but that's no reason not to include an API for people to create niche UI elements which may not be included in the default. With all the great information being released lately like the mobile apps and not-sucky pve, it would be a shame to overlook such an important part of an MMO.|||The only way I'd say ok is if they had a method in place to prevent people making addons that function as hacks.
Otherwise, I'm not sure if I like the idea or not. I'd have to think about it.|||Addons like the Recount one are perfectly fine for obvious reasons.
The problem is that it creates an unprecedent. If you allow UI-modification addons, then you also will be allowing something like animation changing that can inbalance the competitive aspect.
This already happened in GW1 with texmod. Some guilds changed the skill animations to allow way easier reaction of when and what skills to interrupt by changing the animation to a big textbox that said INTERRUPT ME!!
The only way for this to work is if Anet has some sort of Approval system, where they look through the created addons and only allow those approved by them to get incorporated into the game, but that required moderators, and moderators don't work for free.
Information for after-battle reviewing, good. Awesome even.
Possibility of umbalanced behaviour due to addon, bad. Terribly bad even.|||Hacks? An addon "app store"? ..That's not how this stuff works... lol..
First of all, addons [and this is all in relation to Blizz of course] have to conform to the policy, which states:
Quote:
AddOns must be free of charge.
AddOn code must be completely visible.
AddOns must not negatively impact World of Warcraft realms or other players.
AddOns may not include advertisements.
AddOns may not solicit donations.
AddOns must not contain offensive or objectionable material.
AddOns must abide by World of Warcraft ToU and EULA.
Blizzard Entertainment has the right to disable AddOn functionality as it sees fit.
The last one has already happened a few times, when an addon was created which allowed people to draw diagrams right into the game world for anyone in the party. So they could show where void zones would be, and what their exact radius is, whether you were in range of totems, showed you which way to run, etc etc. Blizzard saw this addon and felt that this went too far, and broke its functionality in the next patch. Addons such as Deadly Boss Mods were allowed to continue, as they merely say that a boss is casting a given ability soon, not where you should go to avoid it.
When you write an addon you use the Lua programming language, and the WoW API. Therefore it's impossible to create an addon which is a "hack" or in Nemeon's example, replaces textures, as these would go outside of both the policy and the boundaries/capabilities of the API.
Further reading:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Addon
http://www.wowwiki.com/Getting_start...writing_addons
http://www.wowwiki.com/World_of_Warcraft_API
http://www.wowwiki.com/Lua_functions
http://www.wowwiki.com/XML_elements|||I don't play WoW, never have, and never will, so I didn't know about all these restrictions. If they have all those restrictions, then fine. Here is the big question though, if you develop something, is there a waiting period before you can use it while Blizzard looks it over? Or can you use it immediately until Blizzard spots it and removes it (in the case of a "hack"). The ONLY way I would want user-made add-ons to be allowed is if there was a waiting period, where your add-on was inspected to make sure no illegalities were made, BEFORE the add-on is available for use.
I'd hate to see something happen where a guild gets together and makes an add-on that would help give them a huge advantage over the other guilds in GvG, shoot up the ladder because of it, and then after the fact, have Anet remove it due to being illegal. Sure, Anet could probably send them the whole way back down the ladder, but would it reset the W-L record of every guild that lost to them? It's little things like that that need to be considered.
As long as Anet would be proactive in scanning over the add-ons before they become available for use, then I see no problems with add-ons. Any other way is unacceptable, IMO.
And this is coming from someone with a background in FPS where all kinds of hacks run rampant, pretty much ruining any fun you could have.|||I played warhammer online, which allowed addons, it was used mainly for making the issues of the game less of an issue. However, it gave those using addons a significant advantage over those who did not to the point where it was basically necessary to use to play the game. I do not want to feel like I must use addons to play gw2, as the functionality can vary greatly from one to another and they can become something you watch constantly, which bugs me.
I know, gw2 will not be as buggy or grindy a game as warhammer online so less addons will be used to help with that. I know why you want addons, and I can respect why you do... however there will be some that would ruin the game for me, of this I can be almost absolutely sure... so I don't like the idea, sorry.|||I agree completely with your reasoning shawn, you would know that from what I've previously argued for adding to gw2.
I would though still like things like these to just be in the game.|||This is awesomest part of WoW (that's not saying much coming from me, but their addon system really is great). Hell yes I'd want it in GW2.|||Quote:
if you develop something, is there a waiting period before you can use it while Blizzard looks it over? Or can you use it immediately until Blizzard spots it and removes it (in the case of a "hack"). The ONLY way I would want user-made add-ons to be allowed is if there was a waiting period, where your add-on was inspected to make sure no illegalities were made, BEFORE the add-on is available for use.
I'd hate to see something happen where a guild gets together and makes an add-on that would help give them a huge advantage over the other guilds in GvG, shoot up the ladder because of it, and then after the fact, have Anet remove it due to being illegal. Sure, Anet could probably send them the whole way back down the ladder, but would it reset the W-L record of every guild that lost to them? It's little things like that that need to be considered.
As long as Anet would be proactive in scanning over the add-ons before they become available for use, then I see no problems with add-ons. Any other way is unacceptable, IMO.
And this is coming from someone with a background in FPS where all kinds of hacks run rampant, pretty much ruining any fun you could have.
I think you're really, REALLY, overestimating what an addon can do. This is not like developing a mobile app for Android or iOS, where you have a software developing kit and Apple's ****ing ridiculous review board to get through (but my hatred of the app store is another story entirely) - addons have to work within the constraints of the addon API.
Quote:
API - An application programming interface is an interface implemented by a software program that enables it to interact with other software. It facilitates interaction between different software programs similar to the way the user interface facilitates interaction between humans and computers.
An API is implemented by applications, libraries, and operating systems to determine their vocabularies and calling conventions, and is used to access their services. It may include specifications for routines, data structures, object classes, and protocols used to communicate between the consumer and the implementer of the API.
So no - there is no "addon review panel." No one submits their addons to Blizzard to go over, because there's no need. Blizzard has already created the limitations within the API. Your addon can talk to the API, which then talks to the game. So you can say "hey, when I talk to this merchant, tell the game to auto-sell all the grey items in my inventory" and the API says "ok, I see here that's an acceptable request, can do."
But obviously there'd be no option for "hey, I'm going to sit here and pretend to be a mini-map modification but really I'm going to run in the background and keylog your username and password" because the API would not recognize such commands, and in turn, the game wouldn't be able to act on them.
Further, addons are all .xml and .lua files - similar to a text file or html file, not executable files - so you'd be unable to run a malicious program that way, either.
I've played my fair share of FPS games as well - don't get addons confused with mods and hacks. Similar to the above Apple app store example, you can download a software developer's kit for game modifications straight off Steam for free. (On the Tools tab it's the "Source SDK"). That involves a whole hell of a lot more work then simple UI addon scripts, however. A friend and I tried once.. then we realized we'd have to create models, textures, maps, sounds, and a bunch of other crap that was way over our heads. That idea didn't last much longer than a week.
So anyway, I don't really think I can explain it any better, nor do I want to, really. 95% of the forum probably had their eyes glaze over before the second paragraph anyway.|||Stats are fun. I like stats.
In fact, I'd like to go beyond personal stats and see, for example, what percentage of players have a warrior as their main, or what the top 10 skillbars for PvP have been over the last week.
A friend of mine who plays WoW was babbling about his character a couple days ago, and mentioned that he has a macro that automatically activates a random minipet when he moves if one isn't already out. Convenient little macros like that in GW would make my day.
GW2 Feedback - Weapons trail effects
I think they are too much and detract from the overall realism/immersion of combat. Maybe that's just the style ANET is going for, but I'd prefer something more subtle, where you can actually see more of the weapons swinging through the air/combat animations rather then it all being engulfed in the brilliant clouds of smoke once the combat ensues.
I'm not asking for it to look like Oblivion or Age of Conan(I wish), I understand that GW2 tempo is very different, but still maybe less=more? Dark Age of Camelot had really simple trail effects but somehow they worked, they weren't too much that they distracted you but enough to accentuate the attacks.|||Uhm, what effects do you exactly have in mind?
Can you perhaps post a picture?|||I think he's talking about the colour effects when you use weapon attack skills, such as a sword glowing red/orang'ish when using a certain skill.
Now I can't say anything about it in gw2 yet, other than I don't care. But in the original game these effects were actually important in relaying information to the players, and thus couldn't be removed.
It might end up being somewhat similar.|||Kedde, that is exactly what I'm talking about.
I'm not asking for it to look like Oblivion or Age of Conan(I wish), I understand that GW2 tempo is very different, but still maybe less=more? Dark Age of Camelot had really simple trail effects but somehow they worked, they weren't too much that they distracted you but enough to accentuate the attacks.|||Uhm, what effects do you exactly have in mind?
Can you perhaps post a picture?|||I think he's talking about the colour effects when you use weapon attack skills, such as a sword glowing red/orang'ish when using a certain skill.
Now I can't say anything about it in gw2 yet, other than I don't care. But in the original game these effects were actually important in relaying information to the players, and thus couldn't be removed.
It might end up being somewhat similar.|||Kedde, that is exactly what I'm talking about.
Opinion on Glowing effect around targeted characters
I thought the gameplay videos are amazing !
However,
I thought the Glowing effect around targeted characters looks cheap. I personally think either reducing the glow a bit or change it into something else would make it better.
Ofc I don't expect everyone to agree so I made a poll. What do you think ?|||I'm okay with it. The way they're going (being persistent and all) something like that is going to help identify who's who very quickly and easily.|||It's more expensive than making the model lighter. Whether or not you like it, it's not cheap.
I personally like it.|||I'm not sure what effect you're talking about. You mean the AoE target circle or the 'glow' around characters being healed (the blue colour with floating ankhs)?
Spoiler
[img]http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/1/21/633681182960702658-Grammar****.jpg[/img]|||I like this much better than what we had in GW. There were times I couldn't see what enemy was being hovered over (especially if there were multiple enemies clumped together) since, all the enemy did was get a bit brighter. It was especially true on brighter maps.
At least now there will be no question as to what is being targeted. I suspect it may get toned down a bit by the time of release though.
Quote:
[img]http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/1/21/633681182960702658-Grammar****.jpg[/img]
so...what is the '****' supposed to be? I think it's screwing up your link, and the few four letter words I did try weren't right.|||Just saw the vid. Kinda cheap, but not enough to be detrimental.
**** = n.azi, goddamn censure.|||I'm okay with it. It's not great, but I can't think of anything better for it either.|||I'm alright with it, it does make your target stand out a bit more than in GW1, but its not a major thing for me.
Give people the option to have it as it is, tone it down a bit, or use the classic brighter enemy kinda function and all should be well.
I think its one of those things where it will look like an eye sore since we have just seen it, but we will get used to it in no time upon release.
- Tsukasa|||Rather have this than Seizure Bisons!|||The real advantage seems to be that it keeps your eye on the action, rather than on the radar. It also makes it easier when you have to target friendlies (green aura) for buffs or heals, given that they are no longer members of your party with handy little buttons to click on in the party window.
Still, something a bit more subtle might be better. It does add to all the visual clutter, with all the new flashy skill animations and such going on.
But, as others have said, it's probably something we'll get used to once we've played long enough to get comfortable with it and mentally filter what we're looking at. I still remember being visually confused sometimes by GW1 when I first started playing.
However,
I thought the Glowing effect around targeted characters looks cheap. I personally think either reducing the glow a bit or change it into something else would make it better.
Ofc I don't expect everyone to agree so I made a poll. What do you think ?|||I'm okay with it. The way they're going (being persistent and all) something like that is going to help identify who's who very quickly and easily.|||It's more expensive than making the model lighter. Whether or not you like it, it's not cheap.
I personally like it.|||I'm not sure what effect you're talking about. You mean the AoE target circle or the 'glow' around characters being healed (the blue colour with floating ankhs)?
Spoiler
[img]http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/1/21/633681182960702658-Grammar****.jpg[/img]|||I like this much better than what we had in GW. There were times I couldn't see what enemy was being hovered over (especially if there were multiple enemies clumped together) since, all the enemy did was get a bit brighter. It was especially true on brighter maps.
At least now there will be no question as to what is being targeted. I suspect it may get toned down a bit by the time of release though.
Quote:
[img]http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/1/21/633681182960702658-Grammar****.jpg[/img]
so...what is the '****' supposed to be? I think it's screwing up your link, and the few four letter words I did try weren't right.|||Just saw the vid. Kinda cheap, but not enough to be detrimental.
**** = n.azi, goddamn censure.|||I'm okay with it. It's not great, but I can't think of anything better for it either.|||I'm alright with it, it does make your target stand out a bit more than in GW1, but its not a major thing for me.
Give people the option to have it as it is, tone it down a bit, or use the classic brighter enemy kinda function and all should be well.
I think its one of those things where it will look like an eye sore since we have just seen it, but we will get used to it in no time upon release.
- Tsukasa|||Rather have this than Seizure Bisons!|||The real advantage seems to be that it keeps your eye on the action, rather than on the radar. It also makes it easier when you have to target friendlies (green aura) for buffs or heals, given that they are no longer members of your party with handy little buttons to click on in the party window.
Still, something a bit more subtle might be better. It does add to all the visual clutter, with all the new flashy skill animations and such going on.
But, as others have said, it's probably something we'll get used to once we've played long enough to get comfortable with it and mentally filter what we're looking at. I still remember being visually confused sometimes by GW1 when I first started playing.
ArenaNet: A Rewarding Experience blog entry
New blog entry.
Two main concerns:
"With the transmutation system, you’ll be able to acquire new items known as Transmutation Stones through our in-game store that allow you to customize your appearance. With transmutation, you take two items of the same type, pick one that is the most visually appealing to you, one that is the most statistically appealing to you, and then you simply combine the two items into what will hopefully become your perfect piece of armor or weaponry."
"Through our in-game store"? I'm desperately hoping that doesn't mean by paying with real life money. A functionality like this should be made available through in-game ways (like gold or whatever), not by being bought.
"As you could probably guess, the more crests you have of the same kind on your armor (up to the set’s maximum number), the better the bonuses you receive."
That's actually a bad thing, IMO. Players will thus be more likely to have always a full crest set, as opposed to mixing many sets; eventually people will find a crest set that works better for any given build, and we will see many players wearing the same set, which would then be sold for a very high price. A system in which diversity is rewarded more would be better, IMO.
I would also like to know what happens when we try to change the upgrades of a given item. We can remove runes from an armor piece on GW1; is it possible to remove crests from an armor piece in GW2 and use said crest at a different armor piece?
That being said, it's a very nice article. The art is rather beautiful, and the ideas stated (such as dungeons having a full set of unique equipment, players being able to choose how they will look like, and etc) are perfect.
Erasculio|||As long it's not something outrageous like $10 for 1 Transmutation stone or 5 transmutation stones.|||resource nodes make me cringe, but I can't really identify why, especially in comparison to 'salvage stuff and hope the right mats pop out of it'
edit- Also, transmutation stones don't really bother me. So basically it's a 'reskin this thing to look like this instead'. Honestly, we'll probably have to get used to several things like that. I assume it's how they're going to balance out the no server costs. As long as it's pretty much cosmetic and doesn't give advantages, people can go buy as many sparkles as they want to staple onto their armor.
double edit- Oh, hey, six armor pieces, apparently? Is that anything new to us?|||I'm not against microtransactions as a whole. However, I do not want to see things like special weapons be added to the store. Stuff like makeover kits, these transmutation kits, and whatever else are fine. I'll probably never use some of these things anyway.
This article really makes me want the game so much more (not like I didn't already want it bad enough).|||Quote:
In the case of gathering materials from things like ore nodes, plants, and the like
Is this old news? Did we already know that there was material gathering? I didnt know anyways... And im not sure what to think about it...|||Quote:
Is this old news? Did we already know that there was material gathering? I didnt know anyways... And im not sure what to think about it...
Yes, they have mentioned it before. They were talking about a kind of phasing whereby a player might exploit a resource node and it disappears but only for that player. His friend will still see that node and also be able to harvest it himself. This falls in with all the other things they're trying to do to make it so you won't be annoyed to see other people because they could steal your kills/loot/nodes.|||I more or less share Erasculio's concerns on this. I'll have to toss it around a bit in my head to see if they sound a bit less bothersome, though.|||Quote:
"Through our in-game store"? I'm desperately hoping that doesn't mean by paying with real life money. A functionality like this should be made available through in-game ways (like gold or whatever), not by being bought.
I wouldn't mind if it was like, $5 for a whole crap load, as in, capable of doing at least 20 different entire sets of armor, but I'm wary of in-game stores after playing a couple F2P MMO's and after the whole TF2 fiasco. It's absurd they say,"We need people to wear what they want," and then make them pay extra for the service. They really should be available in-game though, and maybe just sell extras inthe store or something. Ugh, I hate cash shops. Everything always seems to be radically overpriced, like a Storage pane for $10, or a Polycount Pack for $50.
Note to self: If I ever make a game with a cash shop, for any reason, price things appropriately. Something that's not even anything shouldn't cost 1/4 of the game.|||Quote:
Transmutation Stones through our in-game store
Hopefully, just bad wording for in-game merchants. I will need time to read trough all that stuff later when returning from work.|||Most of the article sounded pretty good, but I guess I'm not the first to get a big "warning" hit off that "transmutation stones through our in-game store" bit.
On the one hand it appears to be entirely cosmetic (which is one of the two categories I approve of for micro-transactions, the other being things you can get in-game anyway) but on the other hand it seems to me that this isn't the sort of thing that they should be talking about when trying to hype the game. I'd feel better if they came out and said it was a slip, that they weren't intending to talk about that sort of thing yet.
Two main concerns:
"With the transmutation system, you’ll be able to acquire new items known as Transmutation Stones through our in-game store that allow you to customize your appearance. With transmutation, you take two items of the same type, pick one that is the most visually appealing to you, one that is the most statistically appealing to you, and then you simply combine the two items into what will hopefully become your perfect piece of armor or weaponry."
"Through our in-game store"? I'm desperately hoping that doesn't mean by paying with real life money. A functionality like this should be made available through in-game ways (like gold or whatever), not by being bought.
"As you could probably guess, the more crests you have of the same kind on your armor (up to the set’s maximum number), the better the bonuses you receive."
That's actually a bad thing, IMO. Players will thus be more likely to have always a full crest set, as opposed to mixing many sets; eventually people will find a crest set that works better for any given build, and we will see many players wearing the same set, which would then be sold for a very high price. A system in which diversity is rewarded more would be better, IMO.
I would also like to know what happens when we try to change the upgrades of a given item. We can remove runes from an armor piece on GW1; is it possible to remove crests from an armor piece in GW2 and use said crest at a different armor piece?
That being said, it's a very nice article. The art is rather beautiful, and the ideas stated (such as dungeons having a full set of unique equipment, players being able to choose how they will look like, and etc) are perfect.
Erasculio|||As long it's not something outrageous like $10 for 1 Transmutation stone or 5 transmutation stones.|||resource nodes make me cringe, but I can't really identify why, especially in comparison to 'salvage stuff and hope the right mats pop out of it'
edit- Also, transmutation stones don't really bother me. So basically it's a 'reskin this thing to look like this instead'. Honestly, we'll probably have to get used to several things like that. I assume it's how they're going to balance out the no server costs. As long as it's pretty much cosmetic and doesn't give advantages, people can go buy as many sparkles as they want to staple onto their armor.
double edit- Oh, hey, six armor pieces, apparently? Is that anything new to us?|||I'm not against microtransactions as a whole. However, I do not want to see things like special weapons be added to the store. Stuff like makeover kits, these transmutation kits, and whatever else are fine. I'll probably never use some of these things anyway.
This article really makes me want the game so much more (not like I didn't already want it bad enough).|||Quote:
In the case of gathering materials from things like ore nodes, plants, and the like
Is this old news? Did we already know that there was material gathering? I didnt know anyways... And im not sure what to think about it...|||Quote:
Is this old news? Did we already know that there was material gathering? I didnt know anyways... And im not sure what to think about it...
Yes, they have mentioned it before. They were talking about a kind of phasing whereby a player might exploit a resource node and it disappears but only for that player. His friend will still see that node and also be able to harvest it himself. This falls in with all the other things they're trying to do to make it so you won't be annoyed to see other people because they could steal your kills/loot/nodes.|||I more or less share Erasculio's concerns on this. I'll have to toss it around a bit in my head to see if they sound a bit less bothersome, though.|||Quote:
"Through our in-game store"? I'm desperately hoping that doesn't mean by paying with real life money. A functionality like this should be made available through in-game ways (like gold or whatever), not by being bought.
I wouldn't mind if it was like, $5 for a whole crap load, as in, capable of doing at least 20 different entire sets of armor, but I'm wary of in-game stores after playing a couple F2P MMO's and after the whole TF2 fiasco. It's absurd they say,"We need people to wear what they want," and then make them pay extra for the service. They really should be available in-game though, and maybe just sell extras inthe store or something. Ugh, I hate cash shops. Everything always seems to be radically overpriced, like a Storage pane for $10, or a Polycount Pack for $50.
Note to self: If I ever make a game with a cash shop, for any reason, price things appropriately. Something that's not even anything shouldn't cost 1/4 of the game.|||Quote:
Transmutation Stones through our in-game store
Hopefully, just bad wording for in-game merchants. I will need time to read trough all that stuff later when returning from work.|||Most of the article sounded pretty good, but I guess I'm not the first to get a big "warning" hit off that "transmutation stones through our in-game store" bit.
On the one hand it appears to be entirely cosmetic (which is one of the two categories I approve of for micro-transactions, the other being things you can get in-game anyway) but on the other hand it seems to me that this isn't the sort of thing that they should be talking about when trying to hype the game. I'd feel better if they came out and said it was a slip, that they weren't intending to talk about that sort of thing yet.
End game content
I don't think end game content is that important. Or, in other words, I don't think end game content is the most important part of the game.
A very common myth in many MMORPGs is the idea that the end game content is the only thing that matters. It creates a somewhat paradoxical situation in which the entire point of everything between level 1 and the maximum level is to grind in order to finally reach the end game, when the player would finally play the "real game", which more often than not consists on doing raids in order to very slowly grind gear. Everything until end game is considered just as mindless grind, just a wait until the real thing (while ironically it takes as long to reach the level cap as people stay playing in the end game).
One example may be seen at the Aion forums, in a topic in which a new player asked which class would be more suited to him. The answer he was given was, "Don't worry about how your class plays in the beginning of the game, worry only about the role each class has at the end game content when playing in groups". I felt really bad for that player, since he will spend a significant part of his playing time (if not most of his playing time) soloing monsters with a very different gameplay than what he was told to focus on.
In GW2, we know ArenaNet is trying to fill the world with events, so players have a lot to do. However, that leaves us with two problems:
1) A significant part of players will do their best to skip most of that content. Since in other MMORPGs people think the only thing that matters is the end game, it's only logical that players will try to move as fast as possible from level 1 to level 80 in order to reach the "real" game. If ArenaNet added to each starting city one enemy that could be killed over and over giving enough experience to, after a week of non stopping grind, make a player go from level 1 to 80, I'm sure we would have one week after release a small army of players with level 80 characters who had never left the starting areas complaining how the game lacks end game content.
2) The more effort ArenaNet puts in the middle of the game, the less content the end game will have. If we have a lot of content between levels 1 to 79, there won't be as many resources as possible to invest in content for level 80.
IMO, the end game doesn't matter that much. When reading a book with 600 pages, what is more important - for the last 50 pages to be really good, or for the 550 pages before the end to be really interesting? Same thing with the game - if we are going to spend so much time before reaching the level cap, it better be interesting as well.
In fact, it would not bother me if GW2 had very little end game content. Those usually are linked to a lot of grind - see the gear grind that players of other MMORPGs call "raids", the reputation points farming in GW:EN, the Hall of Monuments, etc. Content designed to keeping players playing every day for the rest of their lives is not necessary on a game like GW2, which does not rely on a monthly fee or on the income from consumable items sold for real life money. Just like single player RPGs (such as Mass Effect, Dragon Age and etc) reach an end, and don't try to make people continue to play them over and over and over, so could GW2 have an end instead of placing grind over grind in the path of level 80 characters.
Erasculio|||I say we scrap the idea of endgame content, and instead go with what GW1 offered:
1) Hard mode
The whole game offers an increased challenge for replay value. Basically, difficulty isn't set by area, it's set by players demanding a challenge.
2) Elite areas
Elite areas can be anywhere, but offer a challenge regardless of how developed your character is. In GW2 terms, those would be challenging areas like 5-man dungeons that require a good team, and would adjust to player level to always offer a challenge.
3) The game is the endgame
Forget the idea of endgame starting at level 80. Endgame in GW1 starts as early as mainland, right outside the tutorial area. All areas beyond offer a decent challenge (ok, maybe not so much in nm, but at least it's balanced for lvl 20). You can move back & forth in the game without ever really feeling that it gets too easy or too hard. The difficulty level is flat, or at least independent of your character level etc.|||From what I've seen, the devs agree with you- they try to make non-max level content just as exciting as max ("end game") content. Perfect example is the demo- we have the earth elemental at level one, the Shadow Behemoth at level 15, and the Shatterer at level 50. All epic-feeling boss fights, at nowhere near max level.
I personally disagree- I think that max level content is very important, but as a direct result of having a leveling system in the first place. Regardless of whether you run through the low level content or stop and smell the Red Iris Flowers, for players like me who invested thousands of hours into the first game, a huge percentage of our characters' lifespan will be spent at max level.
Because of this, there's the problem that you might have accidentally passed by some non-max content, and once you've been max level for a while you become bored, because 1) you've done all the max content already, and 2) any non-max content would be trivially easy at your level. There might be this really cool level 35 dungeon, but if you got from level 30 to 40 by doing other stuff, you have no reason to go there anymore. Or to use a GW2 example, a level 80 character has no business fighting the level 15 Shadow Behemoth.
GW1 avoids this problem by making most of the game max content, and GW2 seems like it will partially avoid it by scaling down your level for events outside your level range. No details yet on exactly how that will work, though.
There's also the Hard Mode solution, which turns the entire game into max-level content, but I don't think a HM option would be feasible for persistent areas. (I wouldn't be surprised if they implemented it for dungeons, however.)|||While I never had time to do them that often, I thought things like UW/FOW/DOA/Urgoz were a lot of fun when I did play them. But I didn't think resources were spent on them out of proportion to the rest of the game. I imagine until we get more info, that Anet will balance end game content vs. the rest of the game similarly in GW2, and that's fine with me.
Quote:
Because of this, there's the problem that you might have accidentally passed by some non-max content, and once you've been max level for a while you become bored, because 1) you've done all the max content already, and 2) any non-max content would be trivially easy at your level. There might be this really cool level 35 dungeon, but if you got from level 30 to 40 by doing other stuff, you have no reason to go there anymore. Or to use a GW2 example, a level 80 character has no business fighting the level 15 Shadow Behemoth.
I believe that your character's power will be scaled to the area you are in, so if you are fighting a lvl 15 Shadow Behemoth as a lvl 80 character, your effective lvl will be about 18 or so.|||Personally, I usually prefer non-endgame. I like acquiring skills/power/equipment depending on the game. Once I've gotten all the skills, for example, the game just becomes repetitive. You're not doing anything that's very different than you did for the previous endgame content. Games that require "strategy" don't really require much, so I get the bulk of my enjoyment in seeing my character progress and trying out something that I didn't have access to before.|||Quote:
IMO, the end game doesn't matter that much. When reading a book with 600 pages, what is more important - for the last 50 pages to be really good, or for the 550 pages before the end to be really interesting? Same thing with the game - if we are going to spend so much time before reaching the level cap, it better be interesting as well.
That's a terrible analogy. A story is built fundamentally different from a game. This is very off topic though, so just PM me if you want to discuss that.
ANet seems to be focusing on providing an equal amount of content on all levels and to provide ways to allow players to play all content with their level scaled down when appropriate. This is a roundabout way, as just having no levels, or having levels only affect the character very lightly, would be much simpler than trying to constantly rebalance everything around players coming back etc. but I'm guessing we're too far along in the dev cycle to see that change (*gruntle*).|||Quote:
I believe that your character's power will be scaled to the area you are in, so if you are fighting a lvl 15 Shadow Behemoth as a lvl 80 character, your effective lvl will be about 18 or so.
Yes, I mentioned that in the following paragraph. Still no details on this feature, though.
To add to my earlier post, I was bouncing around ideas in my head for various ways to get around the level/content problem.
Hard Mode. GW1 does this to good effect, but as I already mentioned it wouldn't work in a persistent MMO. Diablo is probably the most famous game to use this, with two extra difficulties, effectively getting people to play the same game three times. Also a bit of a copout, since you're just replaying old content.
Make the level cap so high (or require so much exp) that the players are unlikely to ever reach max level. Diablo 2 v1.10+ does this, with level 98-99 requiring literally thousands of Baal runs. Of course, this greatly encourages mindless grinding for the endgame, but since D2 endgame is already all about item farming, it's forgivable. In other games it also makes the problem worse in that you have that many more levels to spread your content across.
Go to the other extreme and have no levels. Basically GW1, except everyone starts at level 20. This has the side effect of disallowing any character growth and eliminating one of the core elements of being an RPG.
Force your character to temporarily delevel to suit the area/quest. What GW2 seems to be doing. This has a similar effect to the previous option in that it devalues your character growth- why does it matter how many levels you earn if you're always going to be level 12 when going on a level 12 quest?
Give your character the option to temporarily delevel their character, along with incentives to do so. The only game I've seen this put to good use in was The World Ends With You, which allows you to lower your level in exchange for an improved item drop rate. (Incidentally, you also had four difficulty levels to choose from.)
All this is really just an intellectual exercise, since most of these options wouldn't be suitable for GW2. We'll have to wait and see what ANet plans on doing with the deleveling system. It does sound preferable to the standard MMO system where once you've leveled past an area, it's never a challenge for you again.
And all this is from the perspective of a max-level character. From the perspective of a low-level character, ANet's philosophy is great- they get to partake in epic battles long before they reach max level.|||Quote:
I say we scrap the idea of endgame content, and instead go with what GW1 offered:
1) Hard mode
The whole game offers an increased challenge for replay value. Basically, difficulty isn't set by area, it's set by players demanding a challenge.
2) Elite areas
Elite areas can be anywhere, but offer a challenge regardless of how developed your character is. In GW2 terms, those would be challenging areas like 5-man dungeons that require a good team, and would adjust to player level to always offer a challenge.
3) The game is the endgame
Forget the idea of endgame starting at level 80. Endgame in GW1 starts as early as mainland, right outside the tutorial area. All areas beyond offer a decent challenge (ok, maybe not so much in nm, but at least it's balanced for lvl 20). You can move back & forth in the game without ever really feeling that it gets too easy or too hard. The difficulty level is flat, or at least independent of your character level etc.
yeah This
this is my biggest issue with the giant numbers we see in the trailer
my char does say 23dmg average to anything in the gameworld(varying depending on armor values) i can never just run through even one of the earlier mission's one shotting stuff and then theres HM to increase the challenge everywhere(something we cant do with a persistant world( i guess it could be achieved by debuffing the player instead)
and while some builds have made alot of the content simple anyway
i still enjoy playing through the mission's because there actually created as if they were real levels as opposed to in most MMO's where its heres a Map and then heres a bunch of overbuffed enemies (which have suddenly learned to work as a group as opposed to being easily singled out) fight forward till you get to the boss for some loot
goals other than kill till you get to a room with only an entrance, are what make GW fun( i still remember my first time in vizunah when i didn't know that thier was another team in the mission thinking that we were screwed until they popped up out of nowhere and saved the mission)|||Presumably, with the event system in place, there's always going to be stuff to do, even when you're done levelling, and done going through your personal storyline. Especially since these events appear to have a sort of cascading effect. Hopefully there's a chance that an old area can be re-experienced in a new way if you turn up at the right time/do the right thing.
I'd still like to see dungeons/elite areas - you know, stuff you have to think about before starting, and that makes you feel super proud when you finally figure out how to beat it. Hopefully these sorts of things will require teamwork - there's just no point for me if I can't share the experience of stomping some superboss.
Of course, for me, PvP is also endgame content. I hope it will be suitably impressive, as nothing else about this game has impressed me or even genuinely interested me yet.|||Quote:
3) The game is the endgame
Forget the idea of endgame starting at level 80. Endgame in GW1 starts as early as mainland, right outside the tutorial area. All areas beyond offer a decent challenge (ok, maybe not so much in nm, but at least it's balanced for lvl 20). You can move back & forth in the game without ever really feeling that it gets too easy or too hard. The difficulty level is flat, or at least independent of your character level etc.
This.
I think endgame is really important. Otherwise, once you hit max level, what are you supposed to do?
But, yeah, I agree with Alaris 100%: The game should be designed that everything after the introduction IS the endgame, regardless of your level.
A very common myth in many MMORPGs is the idea that the end game content is the only thing that matters. It creates a somewhat paradoxical situation in which the entire point of everything between level 1 and the maximum level is to grind in order to finally reach the end game, when the player would finally play the "real game", which more often than not consists on doing raids in order to very slowly grind gear. Everything until end game is considered just as mindless grind, just a wait until the real thing (while ironically it takes as long to reach the level cap as people stay playing in the end game).
One example may be seen at the Aion forums, in a topic in which a new player asked which class would be more suited to him. The answer he was given was, "Don't worry about how your class plays in the beginning of the game, worry only about the role each class has at the end game content when playing in groups". I felt really bad for that player, since he will spend a significant part of his playing time (if not most of his playing time) soloing monsters with a very different gameplay than what he was told to focus on.
In GW2, we know ArenaNet is trying to fill the world with events, so players have a lot to do. However, that leaves us with two problems:
1) A significant part of players will do their best to skip most of that content. Since in other MMORPGs people think the only thing that matters is the end game, it's only logical that players will try to move as fast as possible from level 1 to level 80 in order to reach the "real" game. If ArenaNet added to each starting city one enemy that could be killed over and over giving enough experience to, after a week of non stopping grind, make a player go from level 1 to 80, I'm sure we would have one week after release a small army of players with level 80 characters who had never left the starting areas complaining how the game lacks end game content.
2) The more effort ArenaNet puts in the middle of the game, the less content the end game will have. If we have a lot of content between levels 1 to 79, there won't be as many resources as possible to invest in content for level 80.
IMO, the end game doesn't matter that much. When reading a book with 600 pages, what is more important - for the last 50 pages to be really good, or for the 550 pages before the end to be really interesting? Same thing with the game - if we are going to spend so much time before reaching the level cap, it better be interesting as well.
In fact, it would not bother me if GW2 had very little end game content. Those usually are linked to a lot of grind - see the gear grind that players of other MMORPGs call "raids", the reputation points farming in GW:EN, the Hall of Monuments, etc. Content designed to keeping players playing every day for the rest of their lives is not necessary on a game like GW2, which does not rely on a monthly fee or on the income from consumable items sold for real life money. Just like single player RPGs (such as Mass Effect, Dragon Age and etc) reach an end, and don't try to make people continue to play them over and over and over, so could GW2 have an end instead of placing grind over grind in the path of level 80 characters.
Erasculio|||I say we scrap the idea of endgame content, and instead go with what GW1 offered:
1) Hard mode
The whole game offers an increased challenge for replay value. Basically, difficulty isn't set by area, it's set by players demanding a challenge.
2) Elite areas
Elite areas can be anywhere, but offer a challenge regardless of how developed your character is. In GW2 terms, those would be challenging areas like 5-man dungeons that require a good team, and would adjust to player level to always offer a challenge.
3) The game is the endgame
Forget the idea of endgame starting at level 80. Endgame in GW1 starts as early as mainland, right outside the tutorial area. All areas beyond offer a decent challenge (ok, maybe not so much in nm, but at least it's balanced for lvl 20). You can move back & forth in the game without ever really feeling that it gets too easy or too hard. The difficulty level is flat, or at least independent of your character level etc.|||From what I've seen, the devs agree with you- they try to make non-max level content just as exciting as max ("end game") content. Perfect example is the demo- we have the earth elemental at level one, the Shadow Behemoth at level 15, and the Shatterer at level 50. All epic-feeling boss fights, at nowhere near max level.
I personally disagree- I think that max level content is very important, but as a direct result of having a leveling system in the first place. Regardless of whether you run through the low level content or stop and smell the Red Iris Flowers, for players like me who invested thousands of hours into the first game, a huge percentage of our characters' lifespan will be spent at max level.
Because of this, there's the problem that you might have accidentally passed by some non-max content, and once you've been max level for a while you become bored, because 1) you've done all the max content already, and 2) any non-max content would be trivially easy at your level. There might be this really cool level 35 dungeon, but if you got from level 30 to 40 by doing other stuff, you have no reason to go there anymore. Or to use a GW2 example, a level 80 character has no business fighting the level 15 Shadow Behemoth.
GW1 avoids this problem by making most of the game max content, and GW2 seems like it will partially avoid it by scaling down your level for events outside your level range. No details yet on exactly how that will work, though.
There's also the Hard Mode solution, which turns the entire game into max-level content, but I don't think a HM option would be feasible for persistent areas. (I wouldn't be surprised if they implemented it for dungeons, however.)|||While I never had time to do them that often, I thought things like UW/FOW/DOA/Urgoz were a lot of fun when I did play them. But I didn't think resources were spent on them out of proportion to the rest of the game. I imagine until we get more info, that Anet will balance end game content vs. the rest of the game similarly in GW2, and that's fine with me.
Quote:
Because of this, there's the problem that you might have accidentally passed by some non-max content, and once you've been max level for a while you become bored, because 1) you've done all the max content already, and 2) any non-max content would be trivially easy at your level. There might be this really cool level 35 dungeon, but if you got from level 30 to 40 by doing other stuff, you have no reason to go there anymore. Or to use a GW2 example, a level 80 character has no business fighting the level 15 Shadow Behemoth.
I believe that your character's power will be scaled to the area you are in, so if you are fighting a lvl 15 Shadow Behemoth as a lvl 80 character, your effective lvl will be about 18 or so.|||Personally, I usually prefer non-endgame. I like acquiring skills/power/equipment depending on the game. Once I've gotten all the skills, for example, the game just becomes repetitive. You're not doing anything that's very different than you did for the previous endgame content. Games that require "strategy" don't really require much, so I get the bulk of my enjoyment in seeing my character progress and trying out something that I didn't have access to before.|||Quote:
IMO, the end game doesn't matter that much. When reading a book with 600 pages, what is more important - for the last 50 pages to be really good, or for the 550 pages before the end to be really interesting? Same thing with the game - if we are going to spend so much time before reaching the level cap, it better be interesting as well.
That's a terrible analogy. A story is built fundamentally different from a game. This is very off topic though, so just PM me if you want to discuss that.
ANet seems to be focusing on providing an equal amount of content on all levels and to provide ways to allow players to play all content with their level scaled down when appropriate. This is a roundabout way, as just having no levels, or having levels only affect the character very lightly, would be much simpler than trying to constantly rebalance everything around players coming back etc. but I'm guessing we're too far along in the dev cycle to see that change (*gruntle*).|||Quote:
I believe that your character's power will be scaled to the area you are in, so if you are fighting a lvl 15 Shadow Behemoth as a lvl 80 character, your effective lvl will be about 18 or so.
Yes, I mentioned that in the following paragraph. Still no details on this feature, though.
To add to my earlier post, I was bouncing around ideas in my head for various ways to get around the level/content problem.
Hard Mode. GW1 does this to good effect, but as I already mentioned it wouldn't work in a persistent MMO. Diablo is probably the most famous game to use this, with two extra difficulties, effectively getting people to play the same game three times. Also a bit of a copout, since you're just replaying old content.
Make the level cap so high (or require so much exp) that the players are unlikely to ever reach max level. Diablo 2 v1.10+ does this, with level 98-99 requiring literally thousands of Baal runs. Of course, this greatly encourages mindless grinding for the endgame, but since D2 endgame is already all about item farming, it's forgivable. In other games it also makes the problem worse in that you have that many more levels to spread your content across.
Go to the other extreme and have no levels. Basically GW1, except everyone starts at level 20. This has the side effect of disallowing any character growth and eliminating one of the core elements of being an RPG.
Force your character to temporarily delevel to suit the area/quest. What GW2 seems to be doing. This has a similar effect to the previous option in that it devalues your character growth- why does it matter how many levels you earn if you're always going to be level 12 when going on a level 12 quest?
Give your character the option to temporarily delevel their character, along with incentives to do so. The only game I've seen this put to good use in was The World Ends With You, which allows you to lower your level in exchange for an improved item drop rate. (Incidentally, you also had four difficulty levels to choose from.)
All this is really just an intellectual exercise, since most of these options wouldn't be suitable for GW2. We'll have to wait and see what ANet plans on doing with the deleveling system. It does sound preferable to the standard MMO system where once you've leveled past an area, it's never a challenge for you again.
And all this is from the perspective of a max-level character. From the perspective of a low-level character, ANet's philosophy is great- they get to partake in epic battles long before they reach max level.|||Quote:
I say we scrap the idea of endgame content, and instead go with what GW1 offered:
1) Hard mode
The whole game offers an increased challenge for replay value. Basically, difficulty isn't set by area, it's set by players demanding a challenge.
2) Elite areas
Elite areas can be anywhere, but offer a challenge regardless of how developed your character is. In GW2 terms, those would be challenging areas like 5-man dungeons that require a good team, and would adjust to player level to always offer a challenge.
3) The game is the endgame
Forget the idea of endgame starting at level 80. Endgame in GW1 starts as early as mainland, right outside the tutorial area. All areas beyond offer a decent challenge (ok, maybe not so much in nm, but at least it's balanced for lvl 20). You can move back & forth in the game without ever really feeling that it gets too easy or too hard. The difficulty level is flat, or at least independent of your character level etc.
yeah This
this is my biggest issue with the giant numbers we see in the trailer
my char does say 23dmg average to anything in the gameworld(varying depending on armor values) i can never just run through even one of the earlier mission's one shotting stuff and then theres HM to increase the challenge everywhere(something we cant do with a persistant world( i guess it could be achieved by debuffing the player instead)
and while some builds have made alot of the content simple anyway
i still enjoy playing through the mission's because there actually created as if they were real levels as opposed to in most MMO's where its heres a Map and then heres a bunch of overbuffed enemies (which have suddenly learned to work as a group as opposed to being easily singled out) fight forward till you get to the boss for some loot
goals other than kill till you get to a room with only an entrance, are what make GW fun( i still remember my first time in vizunah when i didn't know that thier was another team in the mission thinking that we were screwed until they popped up out of nowhere and saved the mission)|||Presumably, with the event system in place, there's always going to be stuff to do, even when you're done levelling, and done going through your personal storyline. Especially since these events appear to have a sort of cascading effect. Hopefully there's a chance that an old area can be re-experienced in a new way if you turn up at the right time/do the right thing.
I'd still like to see dungeons/elite areas - you know, stuff you have to think about before starting, and that makes you feel super proud when you finally figure out how to beat it. Hopefully these sorts of things will require teamwork - there's just no point for me if I can't share the experience of stomping some superboss.
Of course, for me, PvP is also endgame content. I hope it will be suitably impressive, as nothing else about this game has impressed me or even genuinely interested me yet.|||Quote:
3) The game is the endgame
Forget the idea of endgame starting at level 80. Endgame in GW1 starts as early as mainland, right outside the tutorial area. All areas beyond offer a decent challenge (ok, maybe not so much in nm, but at least it's balanced for lvl 20). You can move back & forth in the game without ever really feeling that it gets too easy or too hard. The difficulty level is flat, or at least independent of your character level etc.
This.
I think endgame is really important. Otherwise, once you hit max level, what are you supposed to do?
But, yeah, I agree with Alaris 100%: The game should be designed that everything after the introduction IS the endgame, regardless of your level.
ArenaNet: James Boer Opens the Cinematics Toolbox blog entry
http://www.arena.net/blog/james-boer...matics-toolbox|||an interesting program they use, might be useful for my self IMO.
tho, i guess it will be a 2 year plan if i want it legally, programs for game developers are expensive >_<|||Where's the graph editor!!
tho, i guess it will be a 2 year plan if i want it legally, programs for game developers are expensive >_<|||Where's the graph editor!!
Win VIP Passes to NCSoft event - featuring GW2 Demo!
EDIT:
****CONTEST IS CLOSED ****
PLEASE SEE LAST PAGE FOR WINNERS
Although ArenaNet will not have a booth at New York Comic Con, there is still a chance to play the Guild Wars 2 demo! Incgamers has been given 30 VIP passes to the NCSoft Community Event taking place on Friday Oct 8th in mid-town Manhatten, New York City. The NCSoft event is taking place at a different venue from Comic Con and you do NOT need a Comic Con pass to attend the NCSoft Community Event.
If you are going to be in the NYC area and would like to be eligible to win one of these passes, please simply add a post to this thread. Your post number will be your lottery number. This thread will close on Oct 4th at 23:59 GMT. Sometime on October 5th I will randomly generate 30 unique numbers to determine our winners. Each winner will need to provide their real name and a valid email address via private message. ArenaNet will then send further information about the event to the email you provided. Your name will be added to a guest list and IDs will be checked at the door.
Rules:A person under 18 may attend with a parent or legal guardian until 11PM. The parent/legal guardian must be with the person under 18 at all times.
One entry per person - if multiple posts or accounts are made to increase your chance of winning, you will be disqualified.
Do not post your email or real name to this thread - if you win I will ask for that information to be provided through private message.
This prize consists ONLY of the VIP passes. No physical passes will be mailed to you so it is very important you provide appropriate identification and a valid email address.
This thread should be used for contest entries only. Please direct any further questions to a staff member through private message or the site support forum.
Here is the general information about the Community Event. Please note that VIP pass holders will have early admission to the event and the demo stations.
When
NCsoft East Coast Meet & Greet: Friday, October 8, 2010, 7 p.m.–11 p.m.
NCsoft After Hours Party: Friday, October 8, 2010, 11 p.m.–3 a.m.
Where
Good Units at the Hudson Hotel
Basement Level
356 West 58th Street
New York, NY 10019|||Oh! I live in Manhattan :) Count me in|||OOOOHHHH very interested.. hopefully i win!|||this is cool. count me in.|||<-- keen on meeting u guys|||I am there! Count me in.|||Sweet. I'm in.|||id be happy to party with Arenanet !|||I'm interested.|||I would love to go I already was going to the CC anyway but this makes it even better
****CONTEST IS CLOSED ****
PLEASE SEE LAST PAGE FOR WINNERS
Although ArenaNet will not have a booth at New York Comic Con, there is still a chance to play the Guild Wars 2 demo! Incgamers has been given 30 VIP passes to the NCSoft Community Event taking place on Friday Oct 8th in mid-town Manhatten, New York City. The NCSoft event is taking place at a different venue from Comic Con and you do NOT need a Comic Con pass to attend the NCSoft Community Event.
If you are going to be in the NYC area and would like to be eligible to win one of these passes, please simply add a post to this thread. Your post number will be your lottery number. This thread will close on Oct 4th at 23:59 GMT. Sometime on October 5th I will randomly generate 30 unique numbers to determine our winners. Each winner will need to provide their real name and a valid email address via private message. ArenaNet will then send further information about the event to the email you provided. Your name will be added to a guest list and IDs will be checked at the door.
Rules:A person under 18 may attend with a parent or legal guardian until 11PM. The parent/legal guardian must be with the person under 18 at all times.
One entry per person - if multiple posts or accounts are made to increase your chance of winning, you will be disqualified.
Do not post your email or real name to this thread - if you win I will ask for that information to be provided through private message.
This prize consists ONLY of the VIP passes. No physical passes will be mailed to you so it is very important you provide appropriate identification and a valid email address.
This thread should be used for contest entries only. Please direct any further questions to a staff member through private message or the site support forum.
Here is the general information about the Community Event. Please note that VIP pass holders will have early admission to the event and the demo stations.
When
NCsoft East Coast Meet & Greet: Friday, October 8, 2010, 7 p.m.–11 p.m.
NCsoft After Hours Party: Friday, October 8, 2010, 11 p.m.–3 a.m.
Where
Good Units at the Hudson Hotel
Basement Level
356 West 58th Street
New York, NY 10019|||Oh! I live in Manhattan :) Count me in|||OOOOHHHH very interested.. hopefully i win!|||this is cool. count me in.|||<-- keen on meeting u guys|||I am there! Count me in.|||Sweet. I'm in.|||id be happy to party with Arenanet !|||I'm interested.|||I would love to go I already was going to the CC anyway but this makes it even better
Controllers in GW2?
Will it be possible to use a controller when playing GW2 for example a XBOX 360 controller?|||i don't think so, you would need more buttons on the controller then it has.
maybe if the game was aiming at such control, but this game doesn't have such consideration at all.
IMO for the better.|||Quote:
i don't think so, you would need more buttons on the controller then it has.
Both a 360 controller and a DualShock of any model possess:
Two analogue sticks, each also serving as a clickable button
Four primary face buttons
Four shoulder buttons, two of them analogue triggers depending on model
A D-Pad
That's actually more than enough for a decent control system if a little thought is put into it.|||Quote:
Both a 360 controller and a DualShock of any model possess:
Two analogue sticks, each also serving as a clickable button
Four primary face buttons
Four shoulder buttons, two of them analogue triggers depending on model
A D-Pad
That's actually more than enough for a decent control system if a little thought is put into it.
if the game is build around it, this game certainly isn't.
btw, i have a 360 from first release, i fully well know the functions.|||Quote:
Will it be possible to use a controller when playing GW2 for example a XBOX 360 controller?
Quite awhile back they said they were already looking into making this game playable on consoles. Having the ability to use a controler on the pc would be farily close to doing that.|||If you already own a computer, then why the hell would you want to use a controller?
Now making it completely compatible with consoles is something different, and that I'm fine with if they deem the market there worth it. So long as they don't **** it up like every other company and makes the game for consoles, then port the ****ty version to PC instead of doing it the other way around.|||Quote:
If you already own a computer, then why the hell would you want to use a controller?
Perhaps because a keyboard and mouse isn't an ideal control method for everyone for any number of reasons.
In my case, using a keyboard gets somewhat uncomfortable after only a few minutes these days. Not much I can do about that without spending money that I just don't have at the moment.|||Why is that?
An ingrained strainful technique or something?
I just don't see it.
I know I can perfectly see the difference between computer gaming and console gaming with consoles definitely being more relaxed(lay down in the bed and play vs. sitting at a desk like work), but to me it just sounds awful to try and play a game that is built around having every button on the keyboard available on a controller that has so few in comparison.|||Quote:
Why is that?
An ingrained strainful technique or something?
That and pre-existing back and neck issues. Passing out while standing in just the right spot to slam one's head off a nearby desk doesn't exactly do either any wonders, does it?
Quote:
I know I can perfectly see the difference between computer gaming and console gaming with consoles definitely being more relaxed(lay down in the bed and play vs. sitting at a desk like work), but to me it just sounds awful to try and play a game that is built around having every button on the keyboard available on a controller that has so few in comparison.
True, but in most, if not all cases (I'm looking at you, GTA III series!) you get the hang of it, and if you don't, you remap everything until you do.|||Only times I use a controller is for fighting games on the PC, due certain combo's you just can't pull off with the keyboard.
But for MMO's.. It seems like a hassle.
Unless you plan on never chatting, won't you still need your keyboard?
maybe if the game was aiming at such control, but this game doesn't have such consideration at all.
IMO for the better.|||Quote:
i don't think so, you would need more buttons on the controller then it has.
Both a 360 controller and a DualShock of any model possess:
Two analogue sticks, each also serving as a clickable button
Four primary face buttons
Four shoulder buttons, two of them analogue triggers depending on model
A D-Pad
That's actually more than enough for a decent control system if a little thought is put into it.|||Quote:
Both a 360 controller and a DualShock of any model possess:
Two analogue sticks, each also serving as a clickable button
Four primary face buttons
Four shoulder buttons, two of them analogue triggers depending on model
A D-Pad
That's actually more than enough for a decent control system if a little thought is put into it.
if the game is build around it, this game certainly isn't.
btw, i have a 360 from first release, i fully well know the functions.|||Quote:
Will it be possible to use a controller when playing GW2 for example a XBOX 360 controller?
Quite awhile back they said they were already looking into making this game playable on consoles. Having the ability to use a controler on the pc would be farily close to doing that.|||If you already own a computer, then why the hell would you want to use a controller?
Now making it completely compatible with consoles is something different, and that I'm fine with if they deem the market there worth it. So long as they don't **** it up like every other company and makes the game for consoles, then port the ****ty version to PC instead of doing it the other way around.|||Quote:
If you already own a computer, then why the hell would you want to use a controller?
Perhaps because a keyboard and mouse isn't an ideal control method for everyone for any number of reasons.
In my case, using a keyboard gets somewhat uncomfortable after only a few minutes these days. Not much I can do about that without spending money that I just don't have at the moment.|||Why is that?
An ingrained strainful technique or something?
I just don't see it.
I know I can perfectly see the difference between computer gaming and console gaming with consoles definitely being more relaxed(lay down in the bed and play vs. sitting at a desk like work), but to me it just sounds awful to try and play a game that is built around having every button on the keyboard available on a controller that has so few in comparison.|||Quote:
Why is that?
An ingrained strainful technique or something?
That and pre-existing back and neck issues. Passing out while standing in just the right spot to slam one's head off a nearby desk doesn't exactly do either any wonders, does it?
Quote:
I know I can perfectly see the difference between computer gaming and console gaming with consoles definitely being more relaxed(lay down in the bed and play vs. sitting at a desk like work), but to me it just sounds awful to try and play a game that is built around having every button on the keyboard available on a controller that has so few in comparison.
True, but in most, if not all cases (I'm looking at you, GTA III series!) you get the hang of it, and if you don't, you remap everything until you do.|||Only times I use a controller is for fighting games on the PC, due certain combo's you just can't pull off with the keyboard.
But for MMO's.. It seems like a hassle.
Unless you plan on never chatting, won't you still need your keyboard?
VIP Passes Competition: General discussion thread.
I wanted to go in and chritian Bella's lovely new clean carpet with my big muddy feet but I'd have sullied the post count for lottery tickets and been told no cookies for me.
So I thought I'd start a thread to discuss the competition and supply a place where we can *****, praise and generally discuss it.
Contest thread here.
So first up:
Is that downtown Manhatten, New York City, Thailand?
-Art|||Too bad I'm not planning on going to Manhattan any time soon. I feel like it wouldn't be too hard to win this competition considering there are 30 passes, a very near date in the future so not much planning time, and the whole New York thing.|||Hooray! I live in Manhattan :)
Lottery post said that it is in Midtown, on West 58th. I didn't Google it exactly, but my guess is that it is close to Times Square (eewww).
I'm wondering if we will be able to bring a friend... Probably not, but would be nice.|||I'd enter if free travel from Europe was included.
Sadly, it doesn't* include that.
*Harr Harr|||Quote:
I'd enter if free travel from Europe was included.
Sadly, it doesn't.
"it isn't"
But yes, agreed.|||Quote:
I'd enter if free travel from Europe was included.
Sadly, it doesn't* include that.
*Harr Harr
same here, sigh|||I have a question about the lottery actually. I can't go myself, I'm busy on the date of the event, but I have a friend who currently lives near there. Can I post to get a vip pass for that friend or does he need to be a member of the forum to get his own pass?
I didn't want to ask this in that thread because I didn't want it to be considered for the lottery until the question was answered.|||Quote:
I have a question about the lottery actually. I can't go myself, I'm busy on the date of the event, but I have a friend who currently lives near there. Can I post to get a vip pass for that friend or does he need to be a member of the forum to get his own pass?
I didn't want to ask this in that thread because I didn't want it to be considered for the lottery until the question was answered.
Sure I guess if they really can't be bothered to register and make one post...|||By the way, I posted about it in the Kotaku tips section. I figured getting more exposure for the site isn't a bad thing?|||I would think there would be more on this community who would be more interested in the VIP tickets. So far only 2 posts??!
...ok, it's 9 posts now. Still...but I guess many have the same problem as me: no money to fly to NYC.
So I thought I'd start a thread to discuss the competition and supply a place where we can *****, praise and generally discuss it.
Contest thread here.
So first up:
Is that downtown Manhatten, New York City, Thailand?
-Art|||Too bad I'm not planning on going to Manhattan any time soon. I feel like it wouldn't be too hard to win this competition considering there are 30 passes, a very near date in the future so not much planning time, and the whole New York thing.|||Hooray! I live in Manhattan :)
Lottery post said that it is in Midtown, on West 58th. I didn't Google it exactly, but my guess is that it is close to Times Square (eewww).
I'm wondering if we will be able to bring a friend... Probably not, but would be nice.|||I'd enter if free travel from Europe was included.
Sadly, it doesn't* include that.
*Harr Harr|||Quote:
I'd enter if free travel from Europe was included.
Sadly, it doesn't.
"it isn't"
But yes, agreed.|||Quote:
I'd enter if free travel from Europe was included.
Sadly, it doesn't* include that.
*Harr Harr
same here, sigh|||I have a question about the lottery actually. I can't go myself, I'm busy on the date of the event, but I have a friend who currently lives near there. Can I post to get a vip pass for that friend or does he need to be a member of the forum to get his own pass?
I didn't want to ask this in that thread because I didn't want it to be considered for the lottery until the question was answered.|||Quote:
I have a question about the lottery actually. I can't go myself, I'm busy on the date of the event, but I have a friend who currently lives near there. Can I post to get a vip pass for that friend or does he need to be a member of the forum to get his own pass?
I didn't want to ask this in that thread because I didn't want it to be considered for the lottery until the question was answered.
Sure I guess if they really can't be bothered to register and make one post...|||By the way, I posted about it in the Kotaku tips section. I figured getting more exposure for the site isn't a bad thing?|||I would think there would be more on this community who would be more interested in the VIP tickets. So far only 2 posts??!
...ok, it's 9 posts now. Still...but I guess many have the same problem as me: no money to fly to NYC.
GW2 Awesome Sauce Thread
The Ying for the Yang in that other thread. I thought someone would start one, but since they did not... (and again, no critiquing in this thread, to keep it on point, thnx ).
...
The graphics are gorgeous (I'd use a better word, but I can't find one really).
What has really captured my attention for GW2 so far is how seamlessly the storyline seems to interact with the graphics!
In the Manifesto Video Anet mentioned giving a "character of their own" to their environments, and they really have. Along with how amazingly the aesthetic of the game's look is, the chosen way to do cinematic sequences throughout the game using the paper-like-layered concept art is spot on!
I got really excited when I saw what was so far available for customization; GW2 is really going to tickle my RP bone.
The NPCs, locations, cities (especially with all the store fronts etc.), wow; actually feel like places where people live (wish I could hear the town chatter within the videos); compared to GW1.
...
I like hearing about what Anet has done with the weapons for GW2. The ghostly weapons glowing in the night, having stats that change also accordingly, there are some really cool ideas going down.
...
Amazed so far by the way the characters move. What has been added such as rolling, dodging, etc. look very natural not only in animation, but in how it interacts with game play as well.
...
"Satellite" map zooming (squee), is just awesome.
The map for GW2 is beautiful as is a lot of the loading animations for spells and so forth. I just love how the artisan look Anet was going for is incorporated past just in-game environments and models, but into the actual interface.
...
Probably be something for a thread on the Necromancer, but thank you Anet, for giving the Necro black wispy shrouds for skill animations. <3.
...
The music! I am going to buy it once it is available, need to get me a GW2 art book as well, so I can listen to the music while I pour over it :p.
...
DID I MENTION THE ART LOOKS AMAZING?!!
...
Gw2 is going to be like loosing yourself in a really good book.|||I think the grass is excellent.
Anet should always use folk that work with grass.
It's like the whole team spent some time doing it.
-Art
ALSO: Everything I've seen so far has my psyched up to play it!!!!
I believe the correct term for my current predicament is 'squee'.|||The music during character creation. Full stop.
I was pleasantly surprised to learn that charr could pick a drake (probably a little brother to the Chromatic Drakes in dungeons) as a pet. Makes me wonder how many non-real world pets are out there.
The Shatterer is freaking HUGE. Makes Glint look like a minipet. And that's not even close to the Elder Dragons, which can be seen from the GW1 world map...
Speaking of epic boss battles, the earth elemental is pretty crazy-looking for a level 1 fight.
Though I'm not sure I like health being displayed as a Diablo 2 globe, I like that everyone's primary ability is given its own bar opposite energy. Much more visually useful than the way adrenaline was displayed in GW1.|||I love the necromancer footage I have seen so far - those black, nasty clouds of death when they move, the floaty minions and crawly things.
The Shatterer is still my favorite monster, he's been known for over a week now but I am still all "eeeeeeee want go fight!" every time I see him.
I really want to see more of the level 1 area though! That one interior in Divinity's Reach that is like a greenhouse - I have a feeling that at PAX I am going to hang out there :D
I love the cinematics too, they aren't those overblown plastic-surgeon's-dream ones with the puppet heads talking. There is a lot to love and I cannot wait to go see for myself.|||I definitely love the visuals of the game. Both in and out of cutscenes.
I also am impressed with how the persistent world works and how the players work together. At least from what I've seen in the videos, the event system seems to work great and it's fulfilled my expectations.
Also the trait system. I've seen it work in two videos and it looks pretty interesting and easy to use. Hopefully getting the traits won't be boring, but I'm a fan of how the system seems to work from what I saw in the demo.
And yeah, the epic boss fights. Awesome stuff.|||What had me most excited was the event system, especially in the long video with the two German guys talking. Seeing how naturally it was implemented and how seamlessly everyone started working together to take down that big drake was awesome and makes me very excited for the prospect of a less lonely Guild Wars. Having played the last couple of years of Guild Wars essentially solo, the idea of a natural and easy way to work with other players without all the bother of PUGs and team forming is really exciting.
And love the title of this thread. Made me laugh.|||^
I thought that was really cool also. Not only is it more player to player friendly, but it doesn't matter who joins really (profession-wise).
Quote:
I like that everyone's primary ability is given its own bar opposite energy. Much more visually useful than the way adrenaline was displayed in GW1.
I totally agree. What a great idea!|||Okay, one more that I've mentioned in other threads, but still has me excited.
I've always secretly wished that instead of your weapons disappearing into the ether when I put them away, you would sheath your sword or wrap your bow around your arm. Partly because it's one of those things that always reminds me I'm always in a game, and partly because I spend a lot of time and effort finding just the perfect weapon or offhand to fit the vibe of my character. And I'm the only one who ever sees it. But honestly when my male mesmer is walking through town, he looks half complete without his rose offhand and his black cane. Along the same vein being able to take your pets in town with you is another nice thing.
Superficial, I know, but still something I appreciate.|||Everything has me excited so far, the visuals are beautiful, just a shame we cant fully appreciate them on these fan made con vids so far, but you can tell they are amazing.
Love the little things too, as Funkey said, the sheathing of your weapon and off hand / shield is something i wanted in gw from the start, just adds another level of realism rather than having the weapons magically vanish.
But the thing i think im gonna love most is the playing together aspect.
I never had much confidence in my abilities in game, so i never party with people as im afraid that if the team fails, its my fault and i will have wasted their time.
And when i tried Aion briefly (Oh what a fool i was!) i actually asked people if they wanted help fighting things solo, and if i stepped in and helped without asking, i got a chatbox full of abuse for trying to steal their kill and loot, when all i was after was helping them.
Watching these vids, especially the Shaterer dragon gets me pumped because i know if i see someone in trouble i can step in and assist and more than likely not get a mouth full of abuse, and that when major events go on, i can take part and work with the community and feel like im contributing, and if i fall, someone can ressurect me to help get me back into the battle, no time is wasted in these scenarios, even if the event fails, as you do not need to repeat the same content again to get past the part where you died 40 times before (Gate of Madness in HM anyone?)
Everything about GW seems improved, and i cannot wait to try it out for myself.
As Funkey said, GW2 isn't going to feel lonely at all, and even if no one is around, i know i can support myself without 7 npcs around to make sure i live
Oh and the full world map looks frickin huge!, its going to be fun exploring every last part of the new Tyria
Kudos Arenanet, your making a great game here, and this is only the tip of the iceberg of your creation! i shake with excitement thinking about what other amazing features you have yet to reveal!
- Tsukasa|||I am currently un-able to play any game for long now because I keep on thinking 'This isn't GW2'. I am now a bored gamer.
So far on the PvE side I'm loving all the aspects, more so the ease at which people can band together for an event then go their seperate ways again. But my biggest interest will be the WvW PvP and the hope that it can re-kindle my love for mass PvP that WAR started before the devs stopped listening to the player base.
...
The graphics are gorgeous (I'd use a better word, but I can't find one really).
What has really captured my attention for GW2 so far is how seamlessly the storyline seems to interact with the graphics!
In the Manifesto Video Anet mentioned giving a "character of their own" to their environments, and they really have. Along with how amazingly the aesthetic of the game's look is, the chosen way to do cinematic sequences throughout the game using the paper-like-layered concept art is spot on!
I got really excited when I saw what was so far available for customization; GW2 is really going to tickle my RP bone.
The NPCs, locations, cities (especially with all the store fronts etc.), wow; actually feel like places where people live (wish I could hear the town chatter within the videos); compared to GW1.
...
I like hearing about what Anet has done with the weapons for GW2. The ghostly weapons glowing in the night, having stats that change also accordingly, there are some really cool ideas going down.
...
Amazed so far by the way the characters move. What has been added such as rolling, dodging, etc. look very natural not only in animation, but in how it interacts with game play as well.
...
"Satellite" map zooming (squee), is just awesome.
The map for GW2 is beautiful as is a lot of the loading animations for spells and so forth. I just love how the artisan look Anet was going for is incorporated past just in-game environments and models, but into the actual interface.
...
Probably be something for a thread on the Necromancer, but thank you Anet, for giving the Necro black wispy shrouds for skill animations. <3.
...
The music! I am going to buy it once it is available, need to get me a GW2 art book as well, so I can listen to the music while I pour over it :p.
...
DID I MENTION THE ART LOOKS AMAZING?!!
...
Gw2 is going to be like loosing yourself in a really good book.|||I think the grass is excellent.
Anet should always use folk that work with grass.
It's like the whole team spent some time doing it.
-Art
ALSO: Everything I've seen so far has my psyched up to play it!!!!
I believe the correct term for my current predicament is 'squee'.|||The music during character creation. Full stop.
I was pleasantly surprised to learn that charr could pick a drake (probably a little brother to the Chromatic Drakes in dungeons) as a pet. Makes me wonder how many non-real world pets are out there.
The Shatterer is freaking HUGE. Makes Glint look like a minipet. And that's not even close to the Elder Dragons, which can be seen from the GW1 world map...
Speaking of epic boss battles, the earth elemental is pretty crazy-looking for a level 1 fight.
Though I'm not sure I like health being displayed as a Diablo 2 globe, I like that everyone's primary ability is given its own bar opposite energy. Much more visually useful than the way adrenaline was displayed in GW1.|||I love the necromancer footage I have seen so far - those black, nasty clouds of death when they move, the floaty minions and crawly things.
The Shatterer is still my favorite monster, he's been known for over a week now but I am still all "eeeeeeee want go fight!" every time I see him.
I really want to see more of the level 1 area though! That one interior in Divinity's Reach that is like a greenhouse - I have a feeling that at PAX I am going to hang out there :D
I love the cinematics too, they aren't those overblown plastic-surgeon's-dream ones with the puppet heads talking. There is a lot to love and I cannot wait to go see for myself.|||I definitely love the visuals of the game. Both in and out of cutscenes.
I also am impressed with how the persistent world works and how the players work together. At least from what I've seen in the videos, the event system seems to work great and it's fulfilled my expectations.
Also the trait system. I've seen it work in two videos and it looks pretty interesting and easy to use. Hopefully getting the traits won't be boring, but I'm a fan of how the system seems to work from what I saw in the demo.
And yeah, the epic boss fights. Awesome stuff.|||What had me most excited was the event system, especially in the long video with the two German guys talking. Seeing how naturally it was implemented and how seamlessly everyone started working together to take down that big drake was awesome and makes me very excited for the prospect of a less lonely Guild Wars. Having played the last couple of years of Guild Wars essentially solo, the idea of a natural and easy way to work with other players without all the bother of PUGs and team forming is really exciting.
And love the title of this thread. Made me laugh.|||^
I thought that was really cool also. Not only is it more player to player friendly, but it doesn't matter who joins really (profession-wise).
Quote:
I like that everyone's primary ability is given its own bar opposite energy. Much more visually useful than the way adrenaline was displayed in GW1.
I totally agree. What a great idea!|||Okay, one more that I've mentioned in other threads, but still has me excited.
I've always secretly wished that instead of your weapons disappearing into the ether when I put them away, you would sheath your sword or wrap your bow around your arm. Partly because it's one of those things that always reminds me I'm always in a game, and partly because I spend a lot of time and effort finding just the perfect weapon or offhand to fit the vibe of my character. And I'm the only one who ever sees it. But honestly when my male mesmer is walking through town, he looks half complete without his rose offhand and his black cane. Along the same vein being able to take your pets in town with you is another nice thing.
Superficial, I know, but still something I appreciate.|||Everything has me excited so far, the visuals are beautiful, just a shame we cant fully appreciate them on these fan made con vids so far, but you can tell they are amazing.
Love the little things too, as Funkey said, the sheathing of your weapon and off hand / shield is something i wanted in gw from the start, just adds another level of realism rather than having the weapons magically vanish.
But the thing i think im gonna love most is the playing together aspect.
I never had much confidence in my abilities in game, so i never party with people as im afraid that if the team fails, its my fault and i will have wasted their time.
And when i tried Aion briefly (Oh what a fool i was!) i actually asked people if they wanted help fighting things solo, and if i stepped in and helped without asking, i got a chatbox full of abuse for trying to steal their kill and loot, when all i was after was helping them.
Watching these vids, especially the Shaterer dragon gets me pumped because i know if i see someone in trouble i can step in and assist and more than likely not get a mouth full of abuse, and that when major events go on, i can take part and work with the community and feel like im contributing, and if i fall, someone can ressurect me to help get me back into the battle, no time is wasted in these scenarios, even if the event fails, as you do not need to repeat the same content again to get past the part where you died 40 times before (Gate of Madness in HM anyone?)
Everything about GW seems improved, and i cannot wait to try it out for myself.
As Funkey said, GW2 isn't going to feel lonely at all, and even if no one is around, i know i can support myself without 7 npcs around to make sure i live
Oh and the full world map looks frickin huge!, its going to be fun exploring every last part of the new Tyria
Kudos Arenanet, your making a great game here, and this is only the tip of the iceberg of your creation! i shake with excitement thinking about what other amazing features you have yet to reveal!
- Tsukasa|||I am currently un-able to play any game for long now because I keep on thinking 'This isn't GW2'. I am now a bored gamer.
So far on the PvE side I'm loving all the aspects, more so the ease at which people can band together for an event then go their seperate ways again. But my biggest interest will be the WvW PvP and the hope that it can re-kindle my love for mass PvP that WAR started before the devs stopped listening to the player base.
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